Cave diver here, the article asserts how rare warm caves are but I think that is a very European mindset.
The Mecca for cave diving is in the Yucatán and surrounding areas and the caves there are exceptionally warm. The surface water can be chilly, coming in around 21c at one of the many cenotes (sinkholes, which are the entry points into the system) as rainwater fills them, but the further into the cave you penetrate you will eventually cross the halocline, at which point deeper = warmer ocean water. It’s quite unintuitive but delightful to warm up after a 2+ hour dive. It’s common for divers to go deeper, pull their wetsuit open a little to fill it with warmer water (24c+) and then rise up back to the planned depth.
Cold cave diving is a very different experience and is usually found in Florida and Europe. Don’t recommend.
Recreational (not caves, no thank you!) diver here, jealous of your balmy 21C=70F water temps.
Here in lakes Michigan and Superior, diving on wrecks usually brings you below the thermocline to water temps from 0C to 10C ~= 50F. Only on rare inversions or at the surface at the south end of the lakes do water temps get much above 70.
You Florida, Carribean, and Central American divers have it made with your balmy water temperatures!
I found Florida's caves positively delightful at 21 C; never felt the need to dive dry.
I am envious of the speleothems in Yucatán cenotes. Florida's caves are all phreatic, so you don't get any real decoration beyond scalloping. Still fun to dive, just not much to see aside from water, wet rocks, and a line. And not even that if you blow the viz.
21c sounds nice but I know Floridas geology leads to some comparatively deep caves. Most Cenotes range between 15ft-65ft but from what I hear about the Florida landscape is 85ft is average and some caves go past 300ft, which isn’t going to be warm anywhere.
My father used to be a technical cave diver. There are plenty of beautiful diving places inland. For example the Dubnik opal mines, which are not so far from Budapest.
I'm proud of him, but I'm very glad that he's not doing it anymore. If something happens or if someone panics down in the cave then it's easy to stir up the mud and loose your guideline. It takes just a moment, but when it happens it is super serious and dangerous to everyone in the expedition.
I recall seeing a clip of an interviewee who is a cave diver. He was giving a description of the time he came closest to death while cave diving, and it came down to someone in his group losing it, and him attempting to prevent that person's death, and then being stuck without a guide line and functionally blind in a muddy cave underwater after the person freaking out sped out of the cave. He said he was able to get out by slowly crawling back and forth upside down on the surface of the cave with his face pressed against it trying to find a thin crack he remembered led back to the surface.
What struck me the most was him saying "calm the f down cowboy, calm the f down or you're going to die", and his face when he said it. I can't imagine the sangfroid required. I also can't imagine the conversation when they both reached the surface.
Such a scary thing to do (tho in a sense possibly comforting like a return to the womb, or being interred -- in Mother Earth). Isn't the guideline karabinered to your suit, or you just "hold a thin thread in the dark"?
No, there are no lines attached (to minimise the risk of entanglement). In good visibility with pre-laid lines, you'll often not touch the line.
In poor visibility you'll gently hold the line. If there isn't a pre-laid line, the lead diver will have a reel which they progressively release, and tie-off at intervals (to any useful protrusion).
I met a cave diver recently. Dude is retired now but ran a consultancy for decades through which he and his team would go in and map previously unexplored caves (or someone had died trying).
He was a chill guy but like ... he was just steely af. Can't imagine the nerve it takes to crawl around in those places. Gives me the willies!
My first cavern dive was with a VERY experienced cave cartographer (Yucatan Cenotes, https://www.filoariannadive.com/alex.html ). Cavern is where technically "you can see the light", but if you turn a corner and can't see the surface then it converts into "cave" diving.
For the rank amateur that I was, being able to turn around, orient myself and see a sliver of light ~100ft behind me... yeah, "technically a cavern dive".
I tried to do a "buddy check" w/ him before beginning the dive and he almost pushed me away... the stories of him diving with side-by-side tanks, then pushing each of them through a gap in front of him, one by one, and then wriggling his body through. :insert-shocked-emoji:
Always remember: "Are you a diver, or a dummy?" ...what would a DIVER do? [don't panic, fall back to your training] Good to have that sense of self an security in lots of cases!
You've got to be extremely detail oriented, precise, and disciplined to do it right. I've got a friend who does it and I support him on his dives(hauling gear, etc) but I have zero interest and am not cut from that kind of cloth. Give me tight, muddy, cold, AIR FILLED caves any day though.
I truly don't understand the appeal. What is enjoyable about this experience? I like risky and athletic stuff and have done a bit of climbing (nothing technical) and the appeal there seems quite obvious - in addition to the adrenaline rush, you've got clean air, beautiful vistas and scenery, etc. A pitch-black, dank hole in the ground - ugh. The thought of getting lost, especially getting lost and losing illumination, seems like the ultimate nightmare. On the plus side, those big caverns with various mineral formations do look quite spectacular. But you tell me, what's fun about this?
I don't think I'd like it. The jump scare potential and idea of being caught underground in something that could collapse is not appealing. My thing would more probably be trying experimental gas mixtures for weird technical diving feats, if I were into any of that at all.
I'm wary of cave diving because of the safety issues, but this feels like one I would do. With the fairly controlled environment, warm waters, and guide lines, it feels like about the safest cave dive you can do!
I grew up pretty spoiled by riches, being certified in the Caribbean, but diving quickly lost its allure to me. You start losing color quickly at depth and it’s like staring into an aquarium while risking your life.
Are the tanks still 40lbs or has technology finally caught up to them?
Tanks haven't really changed, although I don't know why anyone would be concerned over 40lbs. What has really improved are dive lights. You can get LED primary lights now that are quite bright with excellent battery life so you can see all the colors.
This whole thread gave me anxiety. I wonder if some kind of heads up display could show divers a map of where they've been and help orient them in silt visibility situations.
Bypass paywall - https://archive.ph/gGHzh
Cave diver here, the article asserts how rare warm caves are but I think that is a very European mindset.
The Mecca for cave diving is in the Yucatán and surrounding areas and the caves there are exceptionally warm. The surface water can be chilly, coming in around 21c at one of the many cenotes (sinkholes, which are the entry points into the system) as rainwater fills them, but the further into the cave you penetrate you will eventually cross the halocline, at which point deeper = warmer ocean water. It’s quite unintuitive but delightful to warm up after a 2+ hour dive. It’s common for divers to go deeper, pull their wetsuit open a little to fill it with warmer water (24c+) and then rise up back to the planned depth.
Cold cave diving is a very different experience and is usually found in Florida and Europe. Don’t recommend.
Recreational (not caves, no thank you!) diver here, jealous of your balmy 21C=70F water temps.
Here in lakes Michigan and Superior, diving on wrecks usually brings you below the thermocline to water temps from 0C to 10C ~= 50F. Only on rare inversions or at the surface at the south end of the lakes do water temps get much above 70.
You Florida, Carribean, and Central American divers have it made with your balmy water temperatures!
I found Florida's caves positively delightful at 21 C; never felt the need to dive dry.
I am envious of the speleothems in Yucatán cenotes. Florida's caves are all phreatic, so you don't get any real decoration beyond scalloping. Still fun to dive, just not much to see aside from water, wet rocks, and a line. And not even that if you blow the viz.
21c sounds nice but I know Floridas geology leads to some comparatively deep caves. Most Cenotes range between 15ft-65ft but from what I hear about the Florida landscape is 85ft is average and some caves go past 300ft, which isn’t going to be warm anywhere.
My father used to be a technical cave diver. There are plenty of beautiful diving places inland. For example the Dubnik opal mines, which are not so far from Budapest.
I'm proud of him, but I'm very glad that he's not doing it anymore. If something happens or if someone panics down in the cave then it's easy to stir up the mud and loose your guideline. It takes just a moment, but when it happens it is super serious and dangerous to everyone in the expedition.
I recall seeing a clip of an interviewee who is a cave diver. He was giving a description of the time he came closest to death while cave diving, and it came down to someone in his group losing it, and him attempting to prevent that person's death, and then being stuck without a guide line and functionally blind in a muddy cave underwater after the person freaking out sped out of the cave. He said he was able to get out by slowly crawling back and forth upside down on the surface of the cave with his face pressed against it trying to find a thin crack he remembered led back to the surface.
What struck me the most was him saying "calm the f down cowboy, calm the f down or you're going to die", and his face when he said it. I can't imagine the sangfroid required. I also can't imagine the conversation when they both reached the surface.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=or92IMcLoIc clip for anyone interested. Gripping stuff.
Such a scary thing to do (tho in a sense possibly comforting like a return to the womb, or being interred -- in Mother Earth). Isn't the guideline karabinered to your suit, or you just "hold a thin thread in the dark"?
No, there are no lines attached (to minimise the risk of entanglement). In good visibility with pre-laid lines, you'll often not touch the line.
In poor visibility you'll gently hold the line. If there isn't a pre-laid line, the lead diver will have a reel which they progressively release, and tie-off at intervals (to any useful protrusion).
https://divingadelaide.com.au/basic-reel-and-guideline-use-f...
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I met a cave diver recently. Dude is retired now but ran a consultancy for decades through which he and his team would go in and map previously unexplored caves (or someone had died trying).
He was a chill guy but like ... he was just steely af. Can't imagine the nerve it takes to crawl around in those places. Gives me the willies!
My first cavern dive was with a VERY experienced cave cartographer (Yucatan Cenotes, https://www.filoariannadive.com/alex.html ). Cavern is where technically "you can see the light", but if you turn a corner and can't see the surface then it converts into "cave" diving.
For the rank amateur that I was, being able to turn around, orient myself and see a sliver of light ~100ft behind me... yeah, "technically a cavern dive".
I tried to do a "buddy check" w/ him before beginning the dive and he almost pushed me away... the stories of him diving with side-by-side tanks, then pushing each of them through a gap in front of him, one by one, and then wriggling his body through. :insert-shocked-emoji:
Always remember: "Are you a diver, or a dummy?" ...what would a DIVER do? [don't panic, fall back to your training] Good to have that sense of self an security in lots of cases!
also https://bonneterremine.com/ near St Louis.
"The World's Largest Subterranean Lake Is A Vibrant Scuba Diving Paradise In Missouri"
Only in my most terrifying nightmares do I find myself cave diving. Kudos to those who enjoy it.
You've got to be extremely detail oriented, precise, and disciplined to do it right. I've got a friend who does it and I support him on his dives(hauling gear, etc) but I have zero interest and am not cut from that kind of cloth. Give me tight, muddy, cold, AIR FILLED caves any day though.
I truly don't understand the appeal. What is enjoyable about this experience? I like risky and athletic stuff and have done a bit of climbing (nothing technical) and the appeal there seems quite obvious - in addition to the adrenaline rush, you've got clean air, beautiful vistas and scenery, etc. A pitch-black, dank hole in the ground - ugh. The thought of getting lost, especially getting lost and losing illumination, seems like the ultimate nightmare. On the plus side, those big caverns with various mineral formations do look quite spectacular. But you tell me, what's fun about this?
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I’m detail oriented which is exactly why I’m unwilling to bet my life on not missing a detail.
how much safer is normal cave spelunking? I hear about accidents pretty often with that too, or getting into a crevice you can't back out of...
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I don't think I'd like it. The jump scare potential and idea of being caught underground in something that could collapse is not appealing. My thing would more probably be trying experimental gas mixtures for weird technical diving feats, if I were into any of that at all.
I'm wary of cave diving because of the safety issues, but this feels like one I would do. With the fairly controlled environment, warm waters, and guide lines, it feels like about the safest cave dive you can do!
I grew up pretty spoiled by riches, being certified in the Caribbean, but diving quickly lost its allure to me. You start losing color quickly at depth and it’s like staring into an aquarium while risking your life.
Are the tanks still 40lbs or has technology finally caught up to them?
Tanks haven't really changed, although I don't know why anyone would be concerned over 40lbs. What has really improved are dive lights. You can get LED primary lights now that are quite bright with excellent battery life so you can see all the colors.
https://halcyon.net/products/focus-2-0-primary-light-corded
I was concerned because I was mostly shore diving. I hadn’t considered LEDs being used for dive lights and appreciate the link.
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Still steel (or sometimes aluminium) and heavy. Carbon-fibre tanks are still extremely esoteric and rare in diving.
There's also not much point to making tanks lighter, since you need weight anyway to counteract the buoyancy of the air, your wetsuit, etc.
This whole thread gave me anxiety. I wonder if some kind of heads up display could show divers a map of where they've been and help orient them in silt visibility situations.
_Miles_ from the ocean? Budapest is 620 miles from the nearest ocean at the mouth of Elbe.
(Incidentally exactly 1000 km.)
Made that same comment to friends when I first came across the article.
Technically correct, I guess: it is miles (quite many of them).