Head End Power (HEP) is the electrical power supplied from the locomotive to the passenger cars for lighting, heating, air conditioning and other amenities - essentially the "hotel load" that keeps your private car functioning while attached to the train.
Those prices seem in reach for a dream vacation that you save up for. You can rent railcars that are already approved. buying a custom rail car is possible but likely out of budget for normal people.
A decade ago a friend of mine rented a private rail car (for cost---he knows the owner) for a family trip/birthday present, and I got to ride on it for a few hours as it was being positioned (https://boston.conman.org/2015/08/05.4). I didn't get a price from him, but it was clear it was pretty much the cost of a new car. The car he was renting came with a lounge, three state rooms, bathroom, dining room, kitchen and two crew members (cook and porter, with their own sleeping quarters).
Their trip was from Miami to Chicago back to Jacksonville (where the car is stored---I rode on it from central Florida to Boca Raton as it was being positioned prior to the start of the family trip; because it was running late, I didn't get a chance to eat lunch on it, sigh) over the course of a week or so. If I could, this is how I would travel, but of course, this being the US, it's not really a viable means of transportation.
> but of course, this being the US, it's not really a viable means of transportation.
Surely if the problem with roads and cars is that private transportation takes up too much room, then widespread private train cars by everyone would be equally problematic pretty much anywhere in the world.
Long distance routes do not take up that much room - most people don't do it often enough. You wouldn't want this for getting to work every day - that wouldn't work. Though a train car can safely follow closer than a auto so it would still be better than private autos.
China has more than 550 cities with high speed rail lines spanning over 40,000km. each with first class, toilets, and meal services.
Or...you can buy an entire rail car, hitch it to the haggard burro that is Amtrak and chug along at pony express speeds across the United States of nothingness until freight rail causes you to have to stop for 3 hours at a time as you do not have right of way.
Enjoy Batesland Nebraska at 20mph slower than the interstates posted speed limit.
who at Amtrak thought this was worth even mentioning?
This is churlish to the point of complete foolishness. Amtrak has a scenic view car for a reason. There is almost no stretch of the track outside of cities that fails to be a completely beautiful and picturesque portrait of our amazing country.
If you haven't tried it then you might not know. I feel bad that you haven't had this experience personally.
> causes you to have to stop for 3 hours at a time as you do not have right of way.
It's about 15 minutes and may happen once or twice a day. The longest delay I experienced was because the locomotive had a mechanical issue. That took one hour.
> who at Amtrak thought this was worth even mentioning?
What kind of person without the relevant experience would even endeavor to offer this comment?
I took a train from nyc to chicago recently and felt like I was passing through the higher numbered districts of the hunger games. The parent is not wrong.
Amtrak does have right-of-way by federal law for over 50 years now. However, the freight operators don't care and the federal government refuses to enforce it.
People with private train cars probably have a louder voice than most rail passengers so if this gets more popular perhaps that could change.
The freight operators say they obey law. I've talk to their drivers (on my last trip one was taking amtrak) who tell about hours waiting for a late amtrak.
i don't know who is right but I don't trust anyone to tell the full truth.
At those prices, this would have to compete against options like a private chauffeur in a Rolls-Royce though, or a private luxury tour bus. Both of which would come in considerably cheaper.
Seattle metro area: Some of the right-of-ways have been converted into rail trails, so the map probably isn't THAT bad. But yeah the current state of US rail is depressing compared to what could have been (or yet could be!)
Having ridden every class of ticket in China's rail system, there is a special place in my heart for all of those experiences.
I am sure a private railcar hitched to the Haggard Amtrak Burro is a special experience, too, particularly when your party is the only party for the staff to wait on.
Do you really have a privately owned rail car in order to go fast? It sounds to me more like a self-driving campervan, you can sit back and watch the world roll by.
I think the railcar equivalent will eventually become reality (if it isn't already)
Lots of people tool around in giant class-a motorhomes. They are 40 or 45 feet long. They are basically small apartments with double-door fridges, dishwasher, washer/dryer, starlink, etc
if they add the self-driving stuff, it will make them extra popular.
You should not consider Amtrak unless desperate. Even then, generally a bus would be better. Amtrak does not exist. It legally has to exist but it is worse than useless, because it pretends that it might actually be something you'd want to use.
Having take a bus and amtrack I'll take amtrak. My bus was just as late, and there was less opportunity to walk around. Amtrak has sleeper cars which are probably better than the coach seats I was in (the bedrooms areea good price for 4 people but had 5 and so couldn't make the numbers work)
That's what makes this interesting to me. Because I feel like, if you own an operatable train car that can be hooked up to AmTrak, then you not only don't have to ask for the pricing, but do you even have to google to see if you can hook it up?
An operable train car could be something you have as a coop deal. If you are good with tools you can probably trade labor for use of a car. (There are several rr clubs restoring old cars that would then qualify - check the club for terms - might even be a club event so the costs are shared with others)
There is nothing more saddening than the state of America’s train situation. It’s like we’re fundamentally incapable of understanding the value of shared infrastructure.
In the rare case that a state escapes the matrix and actually realizes the benefit, we can’t get the damn thing built.
I want a packed bullet train, not a fucking slow private train car.
American trains are the best in the world - at freight. even overall I'd call us rail best in the world - the state of freight rail is that bad in most of the world.
of course people see passanger trains and don't think of freight. However that is missing the true picture.
Land was granted to the railroads with the agreement that they would run passenger rail services. When passenger rail became so unprofitable that it was bankrupting rail companies, they lobbied to make it the governments responsibility to move people around and leave them to make money shuffling freight.
Strangely enough, Florida, of all places seems to be having really good success with their Brightline rail network. The initial system runs from Miami to Orlando, with a few stops in between. They're planning on expanding up north and east into the panhandle. Financially things are a bit dicey, but it got built, and it's reliable. Ridership is increasing, which takes cars of the road, and property values in the areas it stops are going up. Meanwhile California doesn't even have their tiny "initial operating segment" built, and is projecting to be up to 3-4x their original budget of 33 billion dollars.
This is an important example; Brightline feels qualitatively different from Amtrak and they get points for actually delivering new passenger rail service. They have a newer, cleaner, faster product. I rode once from Orlando to Boca and sat next to some British rail fans who went out of their way to try "the new train" on their way to a cruise out of Ft. Lauderdale.
Unfortunately despite significant capital investment to run double track on the FEC corridor from West Palm to Miami (their initial route before expanding north), they and the FEC have been unable/unwilling to do much about the fundamental flaw of rail in densely populated South Florida: at-grade crossings, many in no-horn zones because nearby residents have lobbied for that. This has been a problem for decades even when the line was freight-only.
All too predictably, a recent investigation [1] found Brightline is the deadliest passenger railroad in the US. Good data visualization and sobering reporting in that article. The railroad wants to socialize the costs of upgrading the crossings but of course privatize the profits. That said, I feel communities that want the density/development benefits of "transit" should be prepared for the costs of achieving that safely.
Brightline missed ("deferred") a bond payment last month:
> Brightline, the private rail line linking Orlando to Miami, refinanced $985M of junior debt at a record-high 14.89% yield, reflecting deep investor concern after delaying a July interest payment on $1.2B in munis. The company, already downgraded deeper into junk by S&P and Fitch, faces falling ridership (53% below projections) and revenue (67% below estimates), plus a potential cash shortfall this quarter without an equity infusion.
The only halfway competent rail in the US is that northeast corridor in New England. Everything else is crap. And even that northeast corridor is only halfway competent. That people are raving about any of the rail in the US only betrays a lack of use of many foreign rail services. Particularly those in Asia.
It’s sad, because I believe we have the ability to outdo everyone, but we can’t get it done.
Well there was that whole genocide of Native Americans thing. And that Civil War thing where half the country was killing the other half. Black people were slaves, women couldn't vote (or own property, or a bank account, etc), being gay was illegal, the Irish were the immigrant whipping boys. Then there was the Jim Crow era, WWI, the Depression, Prohibition, WW2, McCarthyism, the Korean War, Vietnam (when the last Jim Crow laws were repealed).
But, sure, right now is the most depressing time in US history.
The interstate system was originally built so that the army could move quickly from one place to another in the event of a war. I love how things happen in America.
When I was a kid, I thought growing up meant taking trains across states. But now even reliable daily commutes feel out of reach. So when I see something like Brightline, it’s quietly moving. Just the image of someone riding an old railcar across America makes the world feel a little more romantic.
There’s an episode of Archer where Cheryl Tunt, the company secretary, does exactly this on a trip from New York to somewhere in Canada. Their agency was extraditing a Nova Scotian separatist.
I learned a great new word from that episode. Archer is one of the best shows for strange and funny use of language, they just nail my favourite type of humour.
My wife loves the train (hates driving) and so this would be quite interesting to us. But I've heard too many Amtrak horror stories, like the one about how the train broke down about ten miles away from her destination, and they wouldn't let her get off, so she had to sit there for ten hours until they were able to fix it.
This is definitely the weirdest part, their refusal to treat passengers with any respect. For the most part the crew often doesn't know if it will get fixed in one hour or ten hours, but they don't communicate this and there's never an option to bail and have someone pick you up.
Last time I took Amtrak out of LA Union Station, it broke down but luckily was able to pull into the next station so people could get off and find another route. I stayed on and after about 4 hours we were towed back to union station.
We once rode the Amtrak from Sacramento to Reno, through the snow, with the kids. Figured it would be a fun adventure. On the ride up, we were about an hour behind schedule - no problem. On the way back, we started our day at 8am and didn't arrive home til 8pm. Train had to keep stopping for "unexpected delays". Regulars on the train were saying it happens all the time. Not fun.
Why anyone would pay 100x the price to have the same experience is beyond me.
That is not how Amtrak cars are laid out. That's just categorically not a thing on Amtrak. Not in coach, not in the roomette, and not in the private rooms.
I was reverse commuting at the time and wondered what the hell the car was as it looked different than all the other modern cars. I imagine in its heyday it was probably a decent party back up to the North Shore.
I recently took a trip from Chicago to LA and saw some folks doing just this! They had a restored Pullman sleeping car and a kitchen/bar car behind it with crystal chandeliers. Maybe the single most luxurious way to travel. Every stop people would get out and gawk at their cars.
I'm not sure why, other than for the nostalgia, I'd do this other than a trans-Atlantic ocean liner. I have take fairly comfortable sleepers in Europe but nothing like a luxurious ship.
Rail is my favorite way to travel. Going to sleep at night with the country going by is one of the finest feelings imaginable in life, little towns with lights on in empty public squares, just one of my absolute favorite things. And you wake up in endless fields or breathtaking views of canyons and mountains. The people are friendly and you meet new ones at every meal. The sleeper accommodations aren't exactly the Ritz, but they're cozy and comfortable and good for reading or writing or just sitting and looking out the window for hours. Coffee is plentiful and decent, meals are probably microwaved but served on white tablecloths. Cruises give me a feeling of disconnectedness. You're on endless waves, endless sea, in the middle of nowhere. On the train, even going through a desert you feel like you're in the moving center of the world and every stop you could get off and be in a town you'd never heard of that means something to someone. You feel like you're a part of the grand and forgotten history that built the country.
How about airship tours? Not massively different to a train car in terms of pace, but with much more space and good line of sight for sightseeing and internet connectivity.
Crazy idea based on this: a mobile home that can be put either on rail car or electric car platform. Those platforms are pooled and can be rented at designated stations. Or maybe a platform where you can simply park and connect your RV. You basically outsource driving for the significant part of your travel and just enjoy the road. Also better for the environment.
No, it is not it. The idea is that the living module or RV is still occupied during the travel unlike the motorail, where passengers are traveling in separate passenger cars. Car shuttle trains where passengers stay inside the vehicle also do not offer connection of utilities to RV. And my idea goes further where living module is disconnected from engine/wheels platform when loaded on the train (if the design is standardized similarly to containers, you can get new one at the destination, so the train carries less weight).
You actually can. You need access to the siding (even ones next to a cement plant or abandoned building are often railroad controlled or owned) - the trickiest part is car or walking access.
If a truck can get next to it then you have sewage and fuel deliver solved.
Now you just need $100k-$2000k for the private car!
You'd really want a siding with (RR-specific) electrical connections, no noisy/smelly industry next to you, decent views, an elevated platform, and some parking spaces.
They're darn rare, but do exist. If I was Old Money, I'd probably build more in a few in beautiful spots - and freely loan 'em to my peers, as a social networking thing.
>so how do you get a privately owned train car and get it to the tracks or etc?
I think you wait in a remote bit of Nevada for a train to pass, and trigger a rock fall which causes the driver to slam on the brakes and bring the train to a stop just short of the rockfall.
Then, you and your posse jump out from behind some rocks and fire your revolvers in the air, and the driver sticks his hands up. There's much celebration, and back slapping as you discover the train also happens to have a massive amount of gold bullion on board.
The rest is a bit blurry, can't remember seeing what you then do, but it probably involves filing down the serial numbers on the frame or something like that?
> Having worked at a railroad, I will say it’s comically easy to steal a train, for instance. They all have the same key, which is basically just a plastic rod.
> The argument of the railroads is... okay, you have our train. Now what? You either go forward or you go backward, and we know where both those directions go.
The bad guys are driving their train when a cop train shows up in the mirrors behind their train.
Cop walks up to the window and asks for their license and registration please. Another shootout occurs followed by a multi-track multi-train police chase, but everyone needs to stay on their respective train tracks.
Check in with the association of private railcar owners: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19505897 written shortly after Amtrak complained "These operations caused significant operational distraction, failed to capture fully allocated profitable margins". It's not an easy process.
You keep it on tracks, either your own private siding, or rent from a railroad. When you want to go you arrang with the railroad to pick it up. Railroads do this all the time - they might or might not own the cars freight is going on either way they drop it off at your siding and pick it up latter. you need to plan a head though to fit their other scheduldes. There are big costs if you are not ready when the train arrives. (that is no asking them to wait while you store groceries)
The companies that make train cars have a way to do this, so you probably just pay them to do it as part of the price you pay them to make you train car.
They do this in Japan occasionally. I've been on (officially organized by the railroad company) beer trains, wine and cheese trains, local food-tasting trains, etc. Last time, it was like 5,000 yen. All-you-can drink local beer, 2 hour round-trip with stops along the way where local mayors would hope on the train for a quick "hello" speech. Trivia quizzes, bathroom stops at stations (with perplexed-looking late-night commuters), souvenirs for sale... Good times!
One of the places people with these cars visit is Yellowstone, and I've talked to a few of them at the local burger stand (closest food to the railroad siding where they "park"). Interesting people, and less pretentious than I expected for private train owners. I suppose a train is cheaper than a private plane.
If you want to hitch your steam train to the back of an Amtrak train and have it towed then you can follow the same rules as a private car.
If you want to actually drive your steam train then you'd need to negotiate with the track owner, which may be hard, particularly if they run on PTC (there's literally one ERTMS-compliant steam train in the world, for example). There's no public right of way on railway tracks for randoms, only for Amtrak (and even they have limits).
ask UP - I'm sure they will agree to run big boy for you for a price. I'd guess $100k/day but I'm not going to ask. Of course if you have something historic and are going where they want to show off big boy anyway it could be much less.
Well, the fuel - typically coal - heats a big container of water to the boiling point. The vapor is collected, and used as a force (because steam expands) to move the pistons, just like the ones moved by gas explosions in your car.
Then the conductor pulls the chain, and the train makes that whistle sound and spouts a lot of white smoke, which means you are nearing an old-timey town.
In my experience, these cars are old and decrepit, and force you to breathe locomotive engine exhaust all the time, and especially when the train is idling. It’s a fast track to cancer. Don’t spend any more time than you need to in one. They do not offer the air quality of a modern passenger rail car. Heck, I wouldn’t even sleep in a modern rail car at night, in a rail yard, when all systems are off.
This better than every wealthy person owning an RV. Though there is still the last mile problem. Does my personal train car have a vehicle on board (probably I’m rich in this scenario)?
Groups of wealthy people could split a train car. Private Train-car time shares?
If you're actually wealthy, you don't have to split a train car.
Last mile problem? Have your personal assistant drive whatever vehicle you want and have it waiting when the train arrives. They can take an Uber back to wherever they need to be next.
People want this kind of service, but they generally don't like the 19th century experience that is rail travel. Which leads me to a hot take: Within a decade, Autonomous RVs will be the preferred method of travel (above rail and flight) for most trips with a one-way drive time under ~10 hours.
Imagine a private rail car which could pick you up at your doorstep and drop you off in front of your hotel. Is your destination more than a few hours away? Book an evening pick up time and utilize the sleeper configuration. For a 16 hour round trip, such a service could reduce the perceived door-to-door travel time from a full day to near zero.
Other than the cost of the car (which is going to hold its value for decades) & its fees, how is this anywhere near decadent if someone with some money likes to travel this way?
Wherein lies the harm?
People spend more on higher end RVs, burning more fuel, wheels & wear.
This is nowhere near the league of anything that travels through the air with a hint of luxury.
Characteristic of the time. Anything that benefits some fraction of the population that isn't wealthy is woke and is thus doubleplusungood. Thusly, organizations are forced to derive their revenue from catering to the small fraction of wealthy folks who derive more and more from everyone else.
Only in the US could the most collectivistic and efficient mode of transport be perverted into yet another incredibly inefficient and individualistic toy for the wealthy. I can't seem to find anything like that anywhere else.
It anppears to be Amtrak’s greater flexibility and uniformity of gauges in North America that allows this. Europe has more of the historical private wealth that would still own and want to operate a private train or carriage.
I don't think the gauges were much of an issue for passenger trains, after all there were many running across Europe (Orient Express etc).
It's probably more that distances were shorter, the crazy rich could afford an entire train, and the less-rich would use private luxury carriages owned by the railway companies.
Since the 1950s or so, the flexibility has been gradually lost as trains become mostly fixed formations for speed, safety etc, so that certainly explains why it doesn't exist now in Europe.
Yeah, its a bank on top of many natural resources. It happens to be populated exclusively by people that failed wherever they came from, and a few bankers.
If you're wondering the most obvious thing:
- Cost per mile: $4.72
- Minimum charge: $2296
There are also a huge number of other fees that I can't tell if you'd need to pay in practice, e.g.:
- Additional Locomotive Fee (per loco mile): $7.54
- Amtrak Locomotive Daily Charge: $2513
- Head End Power Daily Charge: $3433
- Annual Administrative Fee: $574
https://www.amtrak.com/content/dam/projects/dotcom/english/p...
Head End Power (HEP) is the electrical power supplied from the locomotive to the passenger cars for lighting, heating, air conditioning and other amenities - essentially the "hotel load" that keeps your private car functioning while attached to the train.
Why is it so much? I can't imagine a few lighting and heating fixtures using several thousands worth of electricity.
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If you have to ask you can't afford it.
In my experience the people who can afford everything are often the ones looking to pay the least at all times.
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Those prices seem in reach for a dream vacation that you save up for. You can rent railcars that are already approved. buying a custom rail car is possible but likely out of budget for normal people.
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This is a cliche. Those rich enough that don't have to ask oftentimes pay less than those who are not rich enough.
Parking at a terminal really gets you too
Pretty sure if you own your own $2 million+ private train car this is not a big deal.
A decade ago a friend of mine rented a private rail car (for cost---he knows the owner) for a family trip/birthday present, and I got to ride on it for a few hours as it was being positioned (https://boston.conman.org/2015/08/05.4). I didn't get a price from him, but it was clear it was pretty much the cost of a new car. The car he was renting came with a lounge, three state rooms, bathroom, dining room, kitchen and two crew members (cook and porter, with their own sleeping quarters).
Their trip was from Miami to Chicago back to Jacksonville (where the car is stored---I rode on it from central Florida to Boca Raton as it was being positioned prior to the start of the family trip; because it was running late, I didn't get a chance to eat lunch on it, sigh) over the course of a week or so. If I could, this is how I would travel, but of course, this being the US, it's not really a viable means of transportation.
I feel like the private rail car costing as much as a new car is the main reason you can’t live like this; not because you live in the US
> but of course, this being the US, it's not really a viable means of transportation.
Surely if the problem with roads and cars is that private transportation takes up too much room, then widespread private train cars by everyone would be equally problematic pretty much anywhere in the world.
Long distance routes do not take up that much room - most people don't do it often enough. You wouldn't want this for getting to work every day - that wouldn't work. Though a train car can safely follow closer than a auto so it would still be better than private autos.
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Nice! Florida had the Henry Plant line of rail 100 years ago. Back then it was the main serious mode of transportation.
https://www.floridamemory.com/fpc/memory/onlineclassroom/rai...
> If I could, this is how I would travel
Why?
I'm not into trains at all, but the American Association of Private Railroad Car Owners has some pretty nice looking cars you can charter:
https://www.aaprco.com/charter-a-private-car
I guess it starts at $30,000? Though that might be for an entire train, not just the cars above.
https://www.amtrak.com/charter-your-private-train
That seems to be chartering the cars from Amtrak, though, not from the private car owners.
I clicked a random one and it was owned by a local club not amtrak
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China has more than 550 cities with high speed rail lines spanning over 40,000km. each with first class, toilets, and meal services.
Or...you can buy an entire rail car, hitch it to the haggard burro that is Amtrak and chug along at pony express speeds across the United States of nothingness until freight rail causes you to have to stop for 3 hours at a time as you do not have right of way.
Enjoy Batesland Nebraska at 20mph slower than the interstates posted speed limit.
who at Amtrak thought this was worth even mentioning?
> across the United States of nothingness
This is churlish to the point of complete foolishness. Amtrak has a scenic view car for a reason. There is almost no stretch of the track outside of cities that fails to be a completely beautiful and picturesque portrait of our amazing country.
If you haven't tried it then you might not know. I feel bad that you haven't had this experience personally.
> causes you to have to stop for 3 hours at a time as you do not have right of way.
It's about 15 minutes and may happen once or twice a day. The longest delay I experienced was because the locomotive had a mechanical issue. That took one hour.
> who at Amtrak thought this was worth even mentioning?
What kind of person without the relevant experience would even endeavor to offer this comment?
> There is almost no stretch of the track outside of cities that fails to be a completely beautiful and picturesque portrait of our amazing country
America has some absolutely incredible scenery, but the idea that it's almost _all_ "beautiful and picturesque" is ridiculous.
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I took a train from nyc to chicago recently and felt like I was passing through the higher numbered districts of the hunger games. The parent is not wrong.
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Amtrak does have right-of-way by federal law for over 50 years now. However, the freight operators don't care and the federal government refuses to enforce it.
People with private train cars probably have a louder voice than most rail passengers so if this gets more popular perhaps that could change.
The freight operators say they obey law. I've talk to their drivers (on my last trip one was taking amtrak) who tell about hours waiting for a late amtrak.
i don't know who is right but I don't trust anyone to tell the full truth.
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If I was extremely wealthy I would ride around in my private rail car over flying 100% of the time.
At those prices, this would have to compete against options like a private chauffeur in a Rolls-Royce though, or a private luxury tour bus. Both of which would come in considerably cheaper.
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For me the whole point of flying is fast travel. Private even more so, because it operates on your schedule.
A Amtrak train is slower than driving.
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> across the United States of nothingness
Check out this map if you want to be really sad: https://www.google.com/maps/d/embed?mid=10akDabya8L6nWIJi-4Z...
Seattle metro area: Some of the right-of-ways have been converted into rail trails, so the map probably isn't THAT bad. But yeah the current state of US rail is depressing compared to what could have been (or yet could be!)
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Having ridden every class of ticket in China's rail system, there is a special place in my heart for all of those experiences.
I am sure a private railcar hitched to the Haggard Amtrak Burro is a special experience, too, particularly when your party is the only party for the staff to wait on.
A private airship would definitely be cooler.
You’ll know I have my first billion when you see Hindenburg II with bigger and better hydrogen gasbags.
What’s the point of billions if you don’t have an airship?!?
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Amtrak almost always has right of way but loses it practically, with freight trains that ignore or are too long for the sidings
Do you really have a privately owned rail car in order to go fast? It sounds to me more like a self-driving campervan, you can sit back and watch the world roll by.
I think the railcar equivalent will eventually become reality (if it isn't already)
Lots of people tool around in giant class-a motorhomes. They are 40 or 45 feet long. They are basically small apartments with double-door fridges, dishwasher, washer/dryer, starlink, etc
if they add the self-driving stuff, it will make them extra popular.
I think mobileye might have something.
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Sounds like the kind of thing a billionaire would do in a Neal Stephenson book.
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needing to be anywhere at a particular urgent time is very nouveau riche. making people wait on you is more elegant, right?
/s
It’s always been like that.
I am traveling by Amtrak in a few days.
You should not consider Amtrak unless desperate. Even then, generally a bus would be better. Amtrak does not exist. It legally has to exist but it is worse than useless, because it pretends that it might actually be something you'd want to use.
Having take a bus and amtrack I'll take amtrak. My bus was just as late, and there was less opportunity to walk around. Amtrak has sleeper cars which are probably better than the coach seats I was in (the bedrooms areea good price for 4 people but had 5 and so couldn't make the numbers work)
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It is the fastest way to D.C. for much of the eastern seaboard.
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I've found nowhere that any price is mentioned, so I have to assume that it's one of those "if you have to ask..." sort of things.
Edit: https://www.amtrak.com/content/dam/projects/dotcom/english/p...
Slightly less than $5 a mile with a minimum of $2296. The rate to park your car is around $4000 a month. Fun thing to do if you have the money.
If a private jet is just too "new money" for you, you can travel in style like a 19th-century robber baron.
You can upgrade - travel by robber baron rail, and then have it loaded into a transport aircraft to fly across the pond.
My mustache is tingling.
The rate document has costs
https://www.amtrak.com/content/dam/projects/dotcom/english/p...
That's what makes this interesting to me. Because I feel like, if you own an operatable train car that can be hooked up to AmTrak, then you not only don't have to ask for the pricing, but do you even have to google to see if you can hook it up?
An operable train car could be something you have as a coop deal. If you are good with tools you can probably trade labor for use of a car. (There are several rr clubs restoring old cars that would then qualify - check the club for terms - might even be a club event so the costs are shared with others)
This. There’s an old saying - “If you have to ask, you can’t afford it”
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Well, you personally don't, but someone who works for you will have to find those details and work this out.
Like a tiny home on the correct train car rated construction rolling platform
I would 100% spend the whole time cosplaying the crew of Archer, and refer to it as Tunt Rail.
Does Amtrak allow ocelots if it is someone else's car?
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It's linked as "Rate Addendum Number 7".
https://www.amtrak.com/content/dam/projects/dotcom/english/p...
There is nothing more saddening than the state of America’s train situation. It’s like we’re fundamentally incapable of understanding the value of shared infrastructure.
In the rare case that a state escapes the matrix and actually realizes the benefit, we can’t get the damn thing built.
I want a packed bullet train, not a fucking slow private train car.
American trains are the best in the world - at freight. even overall I'd call us rail best in the world - the state of freight rail is that bad in most of the world.
of course people see passanger trains and don't think of freight. However that is missing the true picture.
naa, in india we got double stacked container trains fully electrified across 95% of 40000 mile route. you guys are still running on diesel
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I'd really like to know where you're taking this claim from.
> I'd call us rail best in the world
ever heard of Japan or Switzerland or China or ...?
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> best in the world
Except for the electricity.
It’s never been shared, FWIW. The rails are mostly privately owned and were built that way too.
That said - bullet trains are great but I fully support the ability of individuals to pay to access freight or passenger rail to subsidize the infra.
Land was granted to the railroads with the agreement that they would run passenger rail services. When passenger rail became so unprofitable that it was bankrupting rail companies, they lobbied to make it the governments responsibility to move people around and leave them to make money shuffling freight.
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> bullet trains are great but I fully support the ability of individuals to pay to access freight or passenger rail to subsidize the infra.
It’d be even nicer if you could hook your private car to a bullet train.
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Strangely enough, Florida, of all places seems to be having really good success with their Brightline rail network. The initial system runs from Miami to Orlando, with a few stops in between. They're planning on expanding up north and east into the panhandle. Financially things are a bit dicey, but it got built, and it's reliable. Ridership is increasing, which takes cars of the road, and property values in the areas it stops are going up. Meanwhile California doesn't even have their tiny "initial operating segment" built, and is projecting to be up to 3-4x their original budget of 33 billion dollars.
This is an important example; Brightline feels qualitatively different from Amtrak and they get points for actually delivering new passenger rail service. They have a newer, cleaner, faster product. I rode once from Orlando to Boca and sat next to some British rail fans who went out of their way to try "the new train" on their way to a cruise out of Ft. Lauderdale.
Unfortunately despite significant capital investment to run double track on the FEC corridor from West Palm to Miami (their initial route before expanding north), they and the FEC have been unable/unwilling to do much about the fundamental flaw of rail in densely populated South Florida: at-grade crossings, many in no-horn zones because nearby residents have lobbied for that. This has been a problem for decades even when the line was freight-only.
All too predictably, a recent investigation [1] found Brightline is the deadliest passenger railroad in the US. Good data visualization and sobering reporting in that article. The railroad wants to socialize the costs of upgrading the crossings but of course privatize the profits. That said, I feel communities that want the density/development benefits of "transit" should be prepared for the costs of achieving that safely.
[1]: https://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/article308679915.html
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> Financially things are a bit dicey
Brightline missed ("deferred") a bond payment last month:
> Brightline, the private rail line linking Orlando to Miami, refinanced $985M of junior debt at a record-high 14.89% yield, reflecting deep investor concern after delaying a July interest payment on $1.2B in munis. The company, already downgraded deeper into junk by S&P and Fitch, faces falling ridership (53% below projections) and revenue (67% below estimates), plus a potential cash shortfall this quarter without an equity infusion.
https://florida.municipalbonds.com/news/2025/08/15/brightlin...
The only halfway competent rail in the US is that northeast corridor in New England. Everything else is crap. And even that northeast corridor is only halfway competent. That people are raving about any of the rail in the US only betrays a lack of use of many foreign rail services. Particularly those in Asia.
It’s sad, because I believe we have the ability to outdo everyone, but we can’t get it done.
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> It’s like we’re fundamentally incapable of understanding the value of shared infrastructure.
I think most people understand the value of parks, roads, and airports.
> There is nothing more saddening than the state of America’s train situation
I can come up with a dozen things much more depressing than that and only in federal level politics.
This seems to be the most depressing time in US history.
It is because there’s NO REASON for us to be suffering, besides the fact that morons have political power
Well there was that whole genocide of Native Americans thing. And that Civil War thing where half the country was killing the other half. Black people were slaves, women couldn't vote (or own property, or a bank account, etc), being gay was illegal, the Irish were the immigrant whipping boys. Then there was the Jim Crow era, WWI, the Depression, Prohibition, WW2, McCarthyism, the Korean War, Vietnam (when the last Jim Crow laws were repealed).
But, sure, right now is the most depressing time in US history.
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The interstate system was originally built so that the army could move quickly from one place to another in the event of a war. I love how things happen in America.
Convince Americans that public transit will be needed to mobilize for World War III and we’ll have the best public transit system of ten years flat.
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Previously:
Privately-Owned Rail Cars - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10324823 - Oct 2015 (2 comments)
When I was a kid, I thought growing up meant taking trains across states. But now even reliable daily commutes feel out of reach. So when I see something like Brightline, it’s quietly moving. Just the image of someone riding an old railcar across America makes the world feel a little more romantic.
There’s an episode of Archer where Cheryl Tunt, the company secretary, does exactly this on a trip from New York to somewhere in Canada. Their agency was extraditing a Nova Scotian separatist.
>Cheryl Tunt, the company secretary,
The independently wealthy company secretary, whose family owned the railroad, as I recall.
Not just owners, they built the railroads, in that universe. She seems to recall her grandmother thinking “slavery was pretty great”
"What are you doing here?"
"Uh, trying to perform my ablutions?"
I learned a great new word from that episode. Archer is one of the best shows for strange and funny use of language, they just nail my favourite type of humour.
My wife loves the train (hates driving) and so this would be quite interesting to us. But I've heard too many Amtrak horror stories, like the one about how the train broke down about ten miles away from her destination, and they wouldn't let her get off, so she had to sit there for ten hours until they were able to fix it.
This is definitely the weirdest part, their refusal to treat passengers with any respect. For the most part the crew often doesn't know if it will get fixed in one hour or ten hours, but they don't communicate this and there's never an option to bail and have someone pick you up.
Last time I took Amtrak out of LA Union Station, it broke down but luckily was able to pull into the next station so people could get off and find another route. I stayed on and after about 4 hours we were towed back to union station.
They cannot legally allow you to bail. They’re government employees or the next closest thing.
So you need to work within their framework. Take the smoke breaks with other passengers. Note how the door works. See where the nearby road is.
And then do a runner.
We once rode the Amtrak from Sacramento to Reno, through the snow, with the kids. Figured it would be a fun adventure. On the ride up, we were about an hour behind schedule - no problem. On the way back, we started our day at 8am and didn't arrive home til 8pm. Train had to keep stopping for "unexpected delays". Regulars on the train were saying it happens all the time. Not fun.
Why anyone would pay 100x the price to have the same experience is beyond me.
Because if you can remove the need to be somewhere, it can be relaxing and fun.
But that decoupling from the need to be somewhere at a time is quite hard.
The car horror stories are much worse
Having a toilet in your sleeping compartment, in 40cm from your pillow is a horror story by itself.
That is not how Amtrak cars are laid out. That's just categorically not a thing on Amtrak. Not in coach, not in the roomette, and not in the private rooms.
My bedroom shares a wall with my bathroom in my penthouse apartment. My toilet is less than a meter from my head. What does it matter, mate?
There’s a wall…
Maybe small spaces just aren't your thing?
I saw this car on Chicago Metra's UPN line: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Car_553
I was reverse commuting at the time and wondered what the hell the car was as it looked different than all the other modern cars. I imagine in its heyday it was probably a decent party back up to the North Shore.
I recently took a trip from Chicago to LA and saw some folks doing just this! They had a restored Pullman sleeping car and a kitchen/bar car behind it with crystal chandeliers. Maybe the single most luxurious way to travel. Every stop people would get out and gawk at their cars.
I'm not sure why, other than for the nostalgia, I'd do this other than a trans-Atlantic ocean liner. I have take fairly comfortable sleepers in Europe but nothing like a luxurious ship.
Rail is my favorite way to travel. Going to sleep at night with the country going by is one of the finest feelings imaginable in life, little towns with lights on in empty public squares, just one of my absolute favorite things. And you wake up in endless fields or breathtaking views of canyons and mountains. The people are friendly and you meet new ones at every meal. The sleeper accommodations aren't exactly the Ritz, but they're cozy and comfortable and good for reading or writing or just sitting and looking out the window for hours. Coffee is plentiful and decent, meals are probably microwaved but served on white tablecloths. Cruises give me a feeling of disconnectedness. You're on endless waves, endless sea, in the middle of nowhere. On the train, even going through a desert you feel like you're in the moving center of the world and every stop you could get off and be in a town you'd never heard of that means something to someone. You feel like you're a part of the grand and forgotten history that built the country.
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How about airship tours? Not massively different to a train car in terms of pace, but with much more space and good line of sight for sightseeing and internet connectivity.
Zeppelin is operating daily sightseeing flights in several areas of Germany https://zeppelinflug.de/en/zeppelin-flights
Hindenburg.
I know it's silly, but it was an instant mental blurt, and I can't be the only one.
Airship design has advanced since the Hindenburg. Notably, they don't use hydrogen anymore.
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My zeppelin will be hydrogen and will be named Hindenburg II.
You can all laugh at me if the inevitable occurs.
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Crazy idea based on this: a mobile home that can be put either on rail car or electric car platform. Those platforms are pooled and can be rented at designated stations. Or maybe a platform where you can simply park and connect your RV. You basically outsource driving for the significant part of your travel and just enjoy the road. Also better for the environment.
You just invented the car train / motorail. Amtrack even operate one!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motorail
Theres also https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Car_shuttle_train but they generally are shorter distance
No, it is not it. The idea is that the living module or RV is still occupied during the travel unlike the motorail, where passengers are traveling in separate passenger cars. Car shuttle trains where passengers stay inside the vehicle also do not offer connection of utilities to RV. And my idea goes further where living module is disconnected from engine/wheels platform when loaded on the train (if the design is standardized similarly to containers, you can get new one at the destination, so the train carries less weight).
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The comparison is perhaps with a private yacht. And can I live aboard permanently on a siding somewhere? The local cement works has a siding... Hmm
You actually can. You need access to the siding (even ones next to a cement plant or abandoned building are often railroad controlled or owned) - the trickiest part is car or walking access.
If a truck can get next to it then you have sewage and fuel deliver solved.
Now you just need $100k-$2000k for the private car!
You'd really want a siding with (RR-specific) electrical connections, no noisy/smelly industry next to you, decent views, an elevated platform, and some parking spaces.
They're darn rare, but do exist. If I was Old Money, I'd probably build more in a few in beautiful spots - and freely loan 'em to my peers, as a social networking thing.
There are houseboats as well.
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Riding in the family rail car like it’s 1895 (and you’re a robber baron)
so how do you get a privately owned train car and get it to the tracks or etc?
from this page it sounds like you own it but Amtrak keeps it parked at their switching stations or something
>so how do you get a privately owned train car and get it to the tracks or etc?
I think you wait in a remote bit of Nevada for a train to pass, and trigger a rock fall which causes the driver to slam on the brakes and bring the train to a stop just short of the rockfall.
Then, you and your posse jump out from behind some rocks and fire your revolvers in the air, and the driver sticks his hands up. There's much celebration, and back slapping as you discover the train also happens to have a massive amount of gold bullion on board.
The rest is a bit blurry, can't remember seeing what you then do, but it probably involves filing down the serial numbers on the frame or something like that?
I work for rail.
That's pretty much it.
The serial numbers are on the axle bearing covers, BTW.
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> Having worked at a railroad, I will say it’s comically easy to steal a train, for instance. They all have the same key, which is basically just a plastic rod.
> The argument of the railroads is... okay, you have our train. Now what? You either go forward or you go backward, and we know where both those directions go.
[credit: thanatos_dem]
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The bad guys are driving their train when a cop train shows up in the mirrors behind their train.
Cop walks up to the window and asks for their license and registration please. Another shootout occurs followed by a multi-track multi-train police chase, but everyone needs to stay on their respective train tracks.
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Check in with the association of private railcar owners: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19505897 written shortly after Amtrak complained "These operations caused significant operational distraction, failed to capture fully allocated profitable margins". It's not an easy process.
Any idea how much it costs to buy your own private train car?
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Very interesting! I guess it would be unpopular for them to stop?
You keep it on tracks, either your own private siding, or rent from a railroad. When you want to go you arrang with the railroad to pick it up. Railroads do this all the time - they might or might not own the cars freight is going on either way they drop it off at your siding and pick it up latter. you need to plan a head though to fit their other scheduldes. There are big costs if you are not ready when the train arrives. (that is no asking them to wait while you store groceries)
Private collectors offer them for charter.
https://www.aaprco.com/
They do. But I didn't see anything on there about cost. Does anyone know, even rough numbers?
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The companies that make train cars have a way to do this, so you probably just pay them to do it as part of the price you pay them to make you train car.
It feels like there’s some kind of Party Train opportunity here, similar to a party bus.
They do this in Japan occasionally. I've been on (officially organized by the railroad company) beer trains, wine and cheese trains, local food-tasting trains, etc. Last time, it was like 5,000 yen. All-you-can drink local beer, 2 hour round-trip with stops along the way where local mayors would hope on the train for a quick "hello" speech. Trivia quizzes, bathroom stops at stations (with perplexed-looking late-night commuters), souvenirs for sale... Good times!
Screw buying expensive road cars when you win the lottery, ill be buying train cars.
This railfan web site occasionally includes sighting reports, sometimes with photos, of trains that include private railcars.
https://www.trainorders.com/discussion/list.php?4
One of the places people with these cars visit is Yellowstone, and I've talked to a few of them at the local burger stand (closest food to the railroad siding where they "park"). Interesting people, and less pretentious than I expected for private train owners. I suppose a train is cheaper than a private plane.
“attached to our trains between specified locations”
What are they?
How does it work if you want a steam train?
If you want to hitch your steam train to the back of an Amtrak train and have it towed then you can follow the same rules as a private car.
If you want to actually drive your steam train then you'd need to negotiate with the track owner, which may be hard, particularly if they run on PTC (there's literally one ERTMS-compliant steam train in the world, for example). There's no public right of way on railway tracks for randoms, only for Amtrak (and even they have limits).
https://youtu.be/xp-b4Ce4Mf4
YouTube exists for this video.
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ask UP - I'm sure they will agree to run big boy for you for a price. I'd guess $100k/day but I'm not going to ask. Of course if you have something historic and are going where they want to show off big boy anyway it could be much less.
Well, the fuel - typically coal - heats a big container of water to the boiling point. The vapor is collected, and used as a force (because steam expands) to move the pistons, just like the ones moved by gas explosions in your car.
Then the conductor pulls the chain, and the train makes that whistle sound and spouts a lot of white smoke, which means you are nearing an old-timey town.
Reminds me of seeing Stalin's personal train car[1] at a museum in his birthplace in Gori, Georgia, a couple of years ago.
[1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Stalin_Museum,_Gori#/me...
How about the personal train car of (Mad / Fairy Tale) King Ludwig II of Bavaria: https://www.kulturstiftung.de/ein-versailles-auf-raedern/
I'd prefer something more modern.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tito's_Blue_Train
https://www.oryxspioenkop.com/2021/02/this-was-gaddafis-pers...
In my experience, these cars are old and decrepit, and force you to breathe locomotive engine exhaust all the time, and especially when the train is idling. It’s a fast track to cancer. Don’t spend any more time than you need to in one. They do not offer the air quality of a modern passenger rail car. Heck, I wouldn’t even sleep in a modern rail car at night, in a rail yard, when all systems are off.
This better than every wealthy person owning an RV. Though there is still the last mile problem. Does my personal train car have a vehicle on board (probably I’m rich in this scenario)?
Groups of wealthy people could split a train car. Private Train-car time shares?
Unless you’re transporting something like the president‘s personal limo, the beast you just rent what you need at your destination.
When you get to the “pay someone to drive the car to where you need to be so that you can use it” amounts of money things become much easier.
> Does my personal train car have a vehicle on board (probably I’m rich in this scenario)?
The back lowers and either a black Trans Am or a trio of red white & blue Minis drive out, depending on personal taste.
I was thinking you could just park one of those small 'air taxis' to the top of the train car (allowing clearance for tunnels and bridges).
If you can afford one, you can surely afford a second one to put your car/bike/gear/stuff in
If you're actually wealthy, you don't have to split a train car.
Last mile problem? Have your personal assistant drive whatever vehicle you want and have it waiting when the train arrives. They can take an Uber back to wherever they need to be next.
And during downtime you could sell space on your train car. Maybe even have an app for it, like uber for trains. Or as commonly know, regular trains.
The limo, driver, cook, and other toys follow in the second car.
People want this kind of service, but they generally don't like the 19th century experience that is rail travel. Which leads me to a hot take: Within a decade, Autonomous RVs will be the preferred method of travel (above rail and flight) for most trips with a one-way drive time under ~10 hours.
Imagine a private rail car which could pick you up at your doorstep and drop you off in front of your hotel. Is your destination more than a few hours away? Book an evening pick up time and utilize the sleeper configuration. For a 16 hour round trip, such a service could reduce the perceived door-to-door travel time from a full day to near zero.
We won't have level 5 in a decade.
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Lots of countries have rich dudes with private coaches.
That’s why it’s called an empire, it needs vassal states
Other than the cost of the car (which is going to hold its value for decades) & its fees, how is this anywhere near decadent if someone with some money likes to travel this way?
Wherein lies the harm?
People spend more on higher end RVs, burning more fuel, wheels & wear.
This is nowhere near the league of anything that travels through the air with a hint of luxury.
The privatization of the public good is the problem, regardless of how ecological or economical you rig your economy to make it look.
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Characteristic of the time. Anything that benefits some fraction of the population that isn't wealthy is woke and is thus doubleplusungood. Thusly, organizations are forced to derive their revenue from catering to the small fraction of wealthy folks who derive more and more from everyone else.
Only in the US could the most collectivistic and efficient mode of transport be perverted into yet another incredibly inefficient and individualistic toy for the wealthy. I can't seem to find anything like that anywhere else.
This was an interesting thread with some history of private train cars/carriages in Europe with links to a few that still exist. https://www.trainorders.com/discussion/read.php?17,2602590,n...
It anppears to be Amtrak’s greater flexibility and uniformity of gauges in North America that allows this. Europe has more of the historical private wealth that would still own and want to operate a private train or carriage.
I don't think the gauges were much of an issue for passenger trains, after all there were many running across Europe (Orient Express etc).
It's probably more that distances were shorter, the crazy rich could afford an entire train, and the less-rich would use private luxury carriages owned by the railway companies.
Since the 1950s or so, the flexibility has been gradually lost as trains become mostly fixed formations for speed, safety etc, so that certainly explains why it doesn't exist now in Europe.
Puts a smile on my face!
Are we the baddies?
The US feels more and more like a playground for rich peope. Insert ‘always has been’ meme
Affordable public transport for the peasants though? lmao no
Yeah, its a bank on top of many natural resources. It happens to be populated exclusively by people that failed wherever they came from, and a few bankers.
You're thinking of Australia. Top 6 companies in the US are FAANG+Microsoft.