Comment by MarcelOlsz
7 hours ago
100%. I just went through an interview process where I absolutely killed the assignment (had the best one they'd seen), had positive signal/feedback from multiple engineers, CEO liked me a lot etc, only to get sunk by a CTO who thought it would be cool to give me a surprise live test because of "vibe coding paranoia". 11 weeks in the process, didn't get the role. Beyond fucking stupid.
This was the demo/take-home (for https://monumental.co): https://github.com/rublev/monumental
It's funny because this repo really does seem vibe-coded. Obviously I have no reason not to believe you, but man! All those emojis in the install shell script - I've never seen anyone other than an AI do that :) Maybe you're the coder that the AI companies trained their AI on.
Sorry about the job interview. That sucks.
There's even a rocket emoji in server console.logs... There are memes with ChatGPT and rocket emojis as a sign of AI use. The whole repo looks super vibe-coded, emojis, abundance of redundant comments, all in perfect English and grammar, and the readme also has that "chatty" feel to it.
I'm not saying that using AI for take-home assignments is bad/unethical overall, but you need to be honest about it. If he was lying to them about not using any AI assistance to write all those emojis and folder structure map in the repo, then the CTO had a good nose and rightfully caught him.
As a big believer in documentation and communication in general, there's this inevitable double-bind that people hate whatever you give them and also hate it if you give them nothing. LLMs have made this worse.
No emojis and any effort to be comprehensive? Everyone complains "what is this wall of text", or "this is industry not grad school so cut it out with the fancy stuff" or "no one spends that much time on anything and it must be AI generated". (Frequently just a way of saying that they hate to read, and naively believe that even irreducibly complex stuff is actually simple).
Stuff that's got emojis, a friendly casual tone and isn't information dense? Well that's very chatty and cute, it also has to be AI and can't be valuable.
Since you can't win with docs, the best approach is to produce high quality diagrams that are simultaneously useful for a wide audience from novice to expert. The only problem is that even producing high quality diagrams at a ratio of 1 diagram per 1k lines of code is still very time consuming to produce if you're putting lots of thought into it, double so if you're fighting the diagramming tools, or if you want something that's easy for multiple stakeholders with potentially very different job descriptions to take in. Everyone will call it inadequate, ask why it took so long, and ask for the missing docs that they will hate anyway!
On the bright side, LLMs are pretty great at generating mermaid, either from code, or natural language descriptions of data-flows. Diagrams-as-code without needing a whole application UI or one of a limited number of your orgs lucid-chart licenses is making "Don't like it? Submit a PR" a pretty small ask. Skin in the game helps to curbs endless bike-shedding criticism
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Oh my god Becky, there's even a rocket emoji in the server console logs!
Should I also be "honest" about tab-completion? Where do you draw the line? Maybe I should be punished for having an internet connection too. Using AI for docker/readme's/simple scaffolding I would have done anyways? Oh the horror!
There was no lying because there was no discussion or mention of AI at all. Had they asked me, I'd have happily told them yes I obviously use AI to help me save time on grunt-work, I've been doing this stuff for like 15 years.
It's an unpaid take-home assignment. You'd have to be smoking crack to think that I would be rawdogging this. Imagine if I had a family or a wife or an existing job? I'd dump them after getting linked their assignment document.
Honestly at this point in the AI winter if you are a guy who has AI-inspired paranoia then I don't want to work for you because you are not "in the know".
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I used AI for the Docker setup which I've already done before. I'm not wasting time on that. Yeah you can vibe code basic backend and frontend and whatnot, but you're not going to vibe code your way to a full inverse kinematics solution.
I'm not a math/university educated guy so this was truly "from the ground up" for me despite the math being simple. I was quite proud of that.
So what was the issue the CTO had with vibe coding? Had you disclosed to then that you used LLMs for coding "basic" features outside the math and whatnot?
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A surprise live test is absolutely the wrong approach for validating whether someone's done the work. IMO the correct approach is to go through the existing code with the applicant and have them explain how it works. Someone who used AI to build it (or in the past had someone else build it for them) wouldn't be able to do a deep dive into the code.
We did go into the assignment after I gently bowed out of the goofy live test. The CTO seemed uninterested & unfamiliar with it after returning from a 3 week vacation during the whole process. I waited. Was happy to run him through it all. Talked about how to extend this to a real-world scenario and all that, which I did fantastically well at.
I feel your pain. This isn't a question about AI or not. It's about if you can do the work and do it well. This kind of nonsense happened before AI. If you can't win the game of Jeapordy you don't get the job which has nothing to do with being a Jeapordy contestant!
Hah I feel you there. Around 2 years ago I did a take home assignment for a hiring manager (scientist) for Merck. The part B of the assignment was to decode binary data and there were 3 challenges: easy, medium and hard.
I spent around 40 hours of time and during my second interview, the manager didn't like my answer about how I would design the UI so he quickly wished me luck and ended the call. The first interview went really well.
For a couple of months, I kept asking the recruiter if anyone successfully solved the coding challenge and he said nobody did except me.
Out of respect, I posted the challenge and the solution on my github after waiting one year.
Part 2 is the challenging part; it's mostly a problem solving thing and less of a coding problem: https://github.com/jonnycoder1/merck_coding_challenge
That sucks so hard man, very disrespectful. We should team up and start out own company. I tried checking out your repo but this stuff is several stops past my station lol.
Damn... that's WAY more than I'll do for an interview process assignment... I usually time box myself to an hour or two max. I think the most I did was a tic-tac-toe engine but ran out of time before I could make a UI over it.
I put absolutely every egg into that basket. The prospect of working in Europe (where I planned to return to eventually) working on cool robot stuff was enticing.
The fucking CTO thought I vibe-coded it and dismissed me. Shout-out to the hiring manager though, he was real.
That is an insane amount of work for a job application. Were you compensated for it at all?
No. Should I invoice them? I'm still livid about it. The kicker is the position pays a max of 60-120k euros, the maximum being what I made 5 years ago.
Probably too late now unfortunately.
The job market is brutal right now, and you have my sympathy. I hope you can find a good fit soon.
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TBF that's a pretty top tier salary for Europe.
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Wait, what.. you did this as a take home for a position? Damn that looks excessive.
Yes. I put a ton of work into it. I had about 60 pages worth of notes. On inverse kinematics, FABRIK, cyclic algorithms used in robotics, A*/RRT for real-world scenarios etc. I was super prepared. Talked to the CEO for about two hours. Took notes on all videos I can find of team members on youtube and their company.
Luckily the hiring manager called me back and levelled with me, nobody kept him in the loop and he felt terrible about it.
Some stupid contrived dumbed down version of this crane demo was used for the live test where I had to build some telemetry crap. Nerves took over, mind blanked.
Here's the take-home assignment requirements btw: https://i.imgur.com/HGL5g8t.png.
Here's the live assignment requirements: [1] https://i.imgur.com/aaiy7QR.png & [2] https://i.imgur.com/aaiy7QR.png.
At this rate I'm probably going to starve to death before I get a job. Should I write a blog post about my last 2 years of experiences? They are comically bad.
This was for monumental.co - found them in the HN who's hiring threads.
Their hiring process seems absolutely absurd.
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I feel bad for you, and I support you in naming and shaming this company. It's just horseshit to jerk people around like that.
I hope you can at least leverage this demo. Maybe remove the identifications of it and shove it into your CV as a "hobby project"? It looks pretty good for that.
Best!
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how much did this job pay?
60k-120k euros. The upper 20k probably being entirely inaccessible so in reality probably like 70-100k euros.
It's always these low pay jobs that have the sloppiest interview experiences
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