← Back to context

Comment by pqtyw

2 days ago

> because they want to preserve the nature as it is.

In Norway? Or by nature as it is you mean managed nature "parks" or reindeer herding areas?

Don't Scandinavians generally vehemently support the eradication of native species like wolves (despite much bigger number of them doing just fine in much denser areas like Italy or Poland).

By "nature" i mean e.g., mountains. Not necessarily managed park. IIRC, the people have also protested against high-voltage lines because... dunno, they "ruin the view" across the fjord I guess.

> reindeer herding areas

There was recently a case in the highest court, Sami people vs state where they wanted newly built wind park in Finnmark to be torn down because... reindeer, native land and rights. They (Sami) won. Funnily, some researchers have shown that reindeer got used to the windmills quickly with seemingly no adverse effects. (Truth to be told, Sami are also internally divided on many issues. There's also a bitter (relatively recent) history between Sami and the state where the state had suppressed Sami culture over decades.)

After the verdict, some lower-ranked politicians said that Finnmark is about to become a museum, no development will now be possible there. I jokingly once thought: give the whole area to Russia so Sami can demonstrate in front of Kremlj.

I don't think the windmills will get torn down, and what happens next, I have no idea.

(For reference: the area is about 48000 km2 and population is around 75000 people. Which gives about 1.5 person per square kilometer.)

> eradication of native species like wolves

Not eradication but controlled number reduction. I'm personally opposed to it, but farmers somehow have a strong-hold on the government there. ATTACKS ON THE LIVE-STOCK! I don't know how much financial damage they suffer yearly, but that's the official explanation.

  • > ATTACKS ON THE LIVE-STOCK!

    It's rather interesting how Italy or Poland can fit several times more livestock, people and wolves into significantly less area.

    https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/databrowser/view/APRO_MT_LSCAT...

    Italy is more densely populated than Denmark for example (and Sweden is an empty wasteland in comparison), yet also somehow has enough space both for wolves and cows/sheep/etc.

"Don't Scandinavians generally vehemently support the eradication of native species like wolves" - Don't know where you got this idea from. Yes, Sweden has started allowing licensed (very regulated) hunting of wolf, but only because the population has increased a lot. There is already tension between livestock farmers and wolfs in places, and I believe allowing wolfes to become much more than what we currently would eventuallt results in _fewer_ wolfs because they would start getting hated.

The greens have long been staunch supportes of wolfs in Sweden, and its the right which is not. Atm we do have a right leaning government so... Im sure it will sway the other way eventually.

  • > but only because the population has increased a lot

    Swedish wolf population is extremely small relative to its geographical size.

    There are less than 400 wolves in Sweden. For example there are 1500 wolves in Poland, possibly twice that in Italy. How many times more farmers livestock those countries have? Let alone people. The Baltic states have more than twice as many wolves as Sweden and Norway put together...

    Sweden is 50% larger than Italy and six times less people, yet somehow several times less area available for wildlife?

    Talking about farmers..

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Land_use_statistics_by_country

    Sweden has only slightly more cultivated land than Lithuania (and Norway several times less than that), let alone Poland or Italy...