I try to avoid JS, as it is a horrible language, by design. That does include TS, but it at least is useable, but barely - because it still tied to JS itself.
Off-topic, but I love how different programmers think about things, and how nothing really is "correct" or "incorrect". Started thinking about it because for me it's the opposite, JS is an OK and at least usable language, as long as you avoid TS and all that comes with it.
Still, even I who'd call myself a JavaScript developer also try to avoid desktop applications made with just JS :)
JS's issue is that it allows you to run an objectively wrong code without throwing explicit error to the user, it just fails silently or does something magical. Seems innocent, until you realize what we use JS for, other than silly websites or ERP dashboards.
It is full of gotchas that serves 0 purpose nowadays.
Also remember that it is basically a Lisp wearing Java skin on top, originally designed in less than 2 weeks.
Typescript is one of few things that puts safety barrier and sane static error checking that makes JS bearable to use - but it still has to fall down to how JS works in the end so it suffers from same core architectural problems.
> JS is an OK and at least usable language, as long as you avoid TS and all that comes with it.
Care to explain why?
My view is this: since you can write plain JS inside TS (just misconfigure tsconfig badly enough), I honestly don’t see how you arrive at that conclusion.
I can just about understand preferring JS on the grounds that it runs without a compile step. But I’ve never seen a convincing explanation of why the language itself is supposedly better.
I was hyped for wasm because i thought it was supposed to solve this problem, allowing any programming language to be compiled to run in browsers.
But apparently they only made it do like 95% of what JS does so you can't actually replace js with it. To me it seems like a huge blunder. I don't give a crap about making niche applications a bit faster, but freeing the web from the curse of JS would be absolutely huge. And they basically did it except not quite. It's so strange to me, why not just go the extra 5%?
depends on use case, i don't think one language can fit all cases. 100% correctness is required for systems, but it is a hindrance in non-critical systems. or robust type systems require high compilation times which hurt iterating on the codebase.
systems? rust - but it is still far from perfect, too much focus on saving few keystrokes here and there.
general purpose corporate development? c# - despite current direction post .net 5 of stapling together legacy parts of .net framework to .net core. it does most things good enough.
scripting, and just scripting? python.
web? there's only one, bad, option and that's js/ts.
most hated ones are in order: js, go, c++, python.
I mean, it's hard to avoid indirectly using things that use npm, e.g. websites or whatever. But it's pretty easy to never have to run npm on your local machine, yes.
as much as i can yes.
I try to avoid JS, as it is a horrible language, by design. That does include TS, but it at least is useable, but barely - because it still tied to JS itself.
Off-topic, but I love how different programmers think about things, and how nothing really is "correct" or "incorrect". Started thinking about it because for me it's the opposite, JS is an OK and at least usable language, as long as you avoid TS and all that comes with it.
Still, even I who'd call myself a JavaScript developer also try to avoid desktop applications made with just JS :)
JS's issue is that it allows you to run an objectively wrong code without throwing explicit error to the user, it just fails silently or does something magical. Seems innocent, until you realize what we use JS for, other than silly websites or ERP dashboards.
It is full of gotchas that serves 0 purpose nowadays.
Also remember that it is basically a Lisp wearing Java skin on top, originally designed in less than 2 weeks.
Typescript is one of few things that puts safety barrier and sane static error checking that makes JS bearable to use - but it still has to fall down to how JS works in the end so it suffers from same core architectural problems.
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> JS is an OK and at least usable language, as long as you avoid TS and all that comes with it.
Care to explain why?
My view is this: since you can write plain JS inside TS (just misconfigure tsconfig badly enough), I honestly don’t see how you arrive at that conclusion.
I can just about understand preferring JS on the grounds that it runs without a compile step. But I’ve never seen a convincing explanation of why the language itself is supposedly better.
Lucky you. I keep coming back to it because jobs and even for desktop apps a native webview beats everything else.
We fcked up with js, big time and its with us forever now
I was hyped for wasm because i thought it was supposed to solve this problem, allowing any programming language to be compiled to run in browsers.
But apparently they only made it do like 95% of what JS does so you can't actually replace js with it. To me it seems like a huge blunder. I don't give a crap about making niche applications a bit faster, but freeing the web from the curse of JS would be absolutely huge. And they basically did it except not quite. It's so strange to me, why not just go the extra 5%?
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A webview doesn't beat anything for desktop apps. It is the worst option available.
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For game dev too - all game engines suck. <canvas/> FTW.
out of sincere curiosity, which one is a great programming language to you?
depends on use case, i don't think one language can fit all cases. 100% correctness is required for systems, but it is a hindrance in non-critical systems. or robust type systems require high compilation times which hurt iterating on the codebase.
systems? rust - but it is still far from perfect, too much focus on saving few keystrokes here and there.
general purpose corporate development? c# - despite current direction post .net 5 of stapling together legacy parts of .net framework to .net core. it does most things good enough.
scripting, and just scripting? python.
web? there's only one, bad, option and that's js/ts.
most hated ones are in order: js, go, c++, python.
go is extremely infuriating, there was a submission on HN that perfectly encapsulated my feelings about it, after writing it for a while: https://fasterthanli.me/articles/i-want-off-mr-golangs-wild-...
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You can write javascript without using npm...
I mean, it's hard to avoid indirectly using things that use npm, e.g. websites or whatever. But it's pretty easy to never have to run npm on your local machine, yes.