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Comment by olmo23

3 months ago

You can not rely on brute force alone to compute these numbers. They are uncomputable.

The busy beaver numbers form an uncomputable sequence.

For BB(5) the proof of its value is an indirect computation. The verification process involved both computation (running many machines) and proofs (showing others run forever or halt earlier). The exhaustiveness of crowdsourced proofs was a tour de force.

Isn't it rather that the Busy Beaver function is uncomputable, particular values can be calculated - although anything great than BB(5) is quite a challenge!

https://scottaaronson.blog/?p=8972

  • Only finitely many values of BB can be mathematically determined. Once your Turing Machines become expressive enough to encode your (presumably consistent) proof system, they can begin encoding nonsense of the form "I will halt only after I manage to derive a proof that I won't ever halt", which means that their halting status (and the corresponding Busy Beaver value) fundamentally cannot be proven.

  • > particular values can be calculated

    You need proofs of nontermination for machines that don't halt. This isn't possible to bruteforce.

    • If such proofs exist that are checkable by a proof assistant, you can brute force them by enumerating programs in the proof assistant (with a comically large runtime). Therefore there is some small N where any proof of BB(N) is not checkable with existing proof assistants. Essentially, this paper proves that BB(5) was brute forcible!

      The most naive algorithm is to use the assistant to check if each length 1 coq program can prove halting with computation limited to 1 second, then check each length 2 coq program running for 2 seconds, etc till the proofs in the arxiv paper are run for more than their runtime.

      3 replies →

    • You can try them with simple short loops detectors, or perhaps with the "turtle and hare" method. If I do that and a friend ask me how I solved it, I'd call that "bruteforce".

      They solved a lot of the machines with something like that, and some with more advanced methods, and "13 Sporadic Machines" that don't halt were solved with a hand coded proof.