{"id":45515756,"user":"joenot443","time":1759928889,"time_ago":"7 days ago","type":"comment","content":"

Have you used the tools to their full potential?","comments":[{"id":45515862,"user":"hollowturtle","time":1759929619,"time_ago":"7 days ago","type":"comment","content":"

Another non existing argument, if the agent fails to give the same answer twice i can't even explore his full potential","comments":[{"id":45516535,"user":"simonw","time":1759933414,"time_ago":"7 days ago","type":"comment","content":"

Hope you've never tried training a dog!","comments":[{"id":45518097,"user":"hollowturtle","time":1759941818,"time_ago":"7 days ago","type":"comment","content":"

Another void argument, we're speaking about tools, dogs are not tools","comments":[{"id":45518233,"user":"simonw","time":1759942680,"time_ago":"7 days ago","type":"comment","content":"

Yes they are. Guide dogs, hunting dogs, sheep dogs. The comparison to LLMs is genuinely useful here, because dogs are unreliable tools that you have to work with over a period of time to figure out.

I've used this argument for real in the past with people who complain that it's unethical to set sightless people up with vision LLM tools because those tools are unreliable and make mistakes. My counter is that a) so are guide dogs and b) it's rude to discount the agency of people with accessibility needs in evaluating and selecting tools for themselves.","comments":[{"id":45521336,"user":"hollowturtle","time":1759962608,"time_ago":"7 days ago","type":"comment","content":"

No they're not, they're animals as we are, otherwise one would claim that you simon are a tool too. I'm finally starting to understand your world beliefs from post and comments, it's aberrating and dystopian","comments":[],"comments_count":0,"level":4,"url":"item?id=45521336"},{"id":45518881,"user":"azemetre","time":1759946545,"time_ago":"7 days ago","type":"comment","content":"

Comparing dogs, things that experience sentience, to software feels deeply dystopian and antihuman.","comments":[{"id":45519115,"user":"simonw","time":1759948027,"time_ago":"7 days ago","type":"comment","content":"

I'm fine with it. I love dogs, and I find suggestions that LLMs may achieve sentience or become conscious either laughable or abhorrent, depending on how serious the person is who's making them.

It's still OK to use dogs as an analogy. In this case the analogy is to unreliable tools, and dogs are unreliable tools.

I don't find "stochastic parrot" offensive as an analogy, even though it's got parrots in it.","comments":[{"id":45521362,"user":"hollowturtle","time":1759962858,"time_ago":"7 days ago","type":"comment","content":"

btw if you have emotional bonds with LLMs like you do with your dog "tools" there isn't much to argue over anymore","comments":[{"id":45522172,"user":"simonw","time":1759970052,"time_ago":"6 days ago","type":"comment","content":"

I don't think you're very good with analogies.","comments":[],"comments_count":0,"level":7,"url":"item?id=45522172"}],"comments_count":1,"level":6,"url":"item?id=45521362"},{"id":45540207,"user":"azemetre","time":1760110808,"time_ago":"5 days ago","type":"comment","content":"

It feels offensive because it's equating sentient life with being a tool used to mostly benefit capitalists. That feels extremely dystopian and somewhat antithetical of what it means to be a human, or at least I hope most humans don't feel their purpose in life is to become a good "widget" on an assembly line.","comments":[{"id":45540591,"user":"simonw","time":1760112827,"time_ago":"5 days ago","type":"comment","content":"

Do you find the "stochastic parrot" analogy offensive in the same way as the "unreliable tools, like dogs" analogy?

If not, why not?

Is it because the parrot analogy is directly critical of LLMs, while the dog one is more of an excuse for their failings?","comments":[],"comments_count":0,"level":7,"url":"item?id=45540591"}],"comments_count":1,"level":6,"url":"item?id=45540207"}],"comments_count":4,"level":5,"url":"item?id=45519115"},{"id":45518988,"time":1759947165,"time_ago":"7 days ago","type":"comment","content":"[deleted]","deleted":true,"comments":[],"comments_count":0,"level":5,"url":"item?id=45518988"}],"comments_count":6,"level":4,"url":"item?id=45518881"}],"comments_count":8,"level":3,"url":"item?id=45518233"},{"id":45520955,"user":"holbrad","time":1759959819,"time_ago":"7 days ago","type":"comment","content":"

You can 100% use dogs as tools as we've done for thousands of years.","comments":[{"id":45521389,"user":"hollowturtle","time":1759963052,"time_ago":"7 days ago","type":"comment","content":"

They're not, they\nre partners/coworkers with emotional bonds and a reciprocal relationship. Reducing them to tools is so Bay Area level of BS.","comments":[],"comments_count":0,"level":4,"url":"item?id=45521389"}],"comments_count":1,"level":3,"url":"item?id=45520955"}],"comments_count":11,"level":2,"url":"item?id=45518097"}],"comments_count":12,"level":1,"url":"item?id=45516535"}],"comments_count":13,"level":0,"url":"item?id=45515862"}],"comments_count":14,"url":"item?id=45515756"}

Comment by joenot443