Comment by bitpush
3 days ago
If Google had not patched this, it would have violated local regulations right? In other words, they are trying to be compliant right?
What do people want - a company to openly violate known local laws?
3 days ago
If Google had not patched this, it would have violated local regulations right? In other words, they are trying to be compliant right?
What do people want - a company to openly violate known local laws?
If you did this somewhere it was illegal, wouldn't that be you violating local laws, not Google violating local laws? If it's the former, then Google shouldn't have "fixed" this "vulnerability", because things you own shouldn't enforce laws against you.
Yes. The argument will be that because it's expensive to police everyone, lawmakers will simply require anyone selling massmarket goods to do the policing instead.
If you're making a non-compliant device in your garage for you and your friends, the police might come. If you're trying to sell it broadly, the police will come, regardless of the user.
I'm for freedom of choice, but pushing regulations up the manufacturing stack is definitiely more efficient use of my tax money.
> it would have violated local regulations right?
First, "local" where? I don't know of any laws making VoLTE devices illegal (..unless blessed by a phone carrier?). If you know of any, feel free to list them, but know that Google has blocked it for all users, globally, not just in the localities where VoLTE is somehow illegal.
Second, I don't want Google enforcing the law - contrary to your framing, it would not be Google violating known local laws, but users that illegally (assuming it is illegal anywhere) enabled VoLTE.
Third, it sounds like they're not enforcing the law, but phone carrier bidding. Having private companies backdoor our devices to force the will of other companies on us is way more corporate dystopia than I am comfortable with. If someone steals my bike, I'm not allowed to break into their house to retrieve it. Yet Google can just abuse their backdoor access to my phone and hack me to make some 3rd party corporation happy?
Well, supposing VoLTE is legal in my local area, and my phone carrier allows it on my device, so there is neither legal nor contractual problems, and Google has just sabotaged my phone. Am I allowed to then hack into Google, take their root Android signing key or whatever it is they have to subvert ownership rights, and use it to patch my phone and restore the functionality they broke and that I paid for? No? Well, what if I had sold them the SSD on which those signing keys are stored? Then it's okay, right, that's how it works? If I sell you something it's not actually yours if I had the foresight to include a backdoor in it, and as long as I have the thinnest of pretenses, I can abuse that access against your wishes? Because consumer rights and property rights and personal sovereignty all go up in smoke as soon as something contains a CPU.
Your phone has access to the radio spectrum under certain limited conditions, everywhere in the world. People who want to sell devices that can emit in the radio spectrum must make every reasonable effort to not allow the devices they sell to operate outside the conditions. I would bet that carrier contracts and rules around requirements for VoLTE and VoNR are codified in the exact same way. There is no legal right to use any device you like on your carrier's network - most likely, your contract with your carrier instead has an explicit series of devices that you are allowed to use, and this is also backed up by your country's laws by not being allowed to emit in the radio spectrum unless you do it through one of the certified carriers and under their conditions.
So, if Google were aware of a hack that allows users of their devices to circumvent conditions put in place by carriers against misuse of their network, and Google did nothing to patch this, Google could lose their license to produce devices which can access the radio spectrum. You personally could also be hel liable for using these hacks, but Google would definitely be on the hook, and could, in principle, be entirely prevented from manufacturing and selling phones, if this ever escalated enough.
VoLTE is on another layer than the one radio spectrum laws apply to. VoLTE is basically SIP with a special handshake that uses the SIM card instead of the usual username/password. It does not affect radio in any way.
3 replies →