Comment by nmadden
2 days ago
Do you really think that in 26 years of professional Java programming I’d have never touched Spring? I’ve been using Spring since it was first released. I’ve found CVEs in Spring (https://spring.io/security/cve-2020-5408). Trust me when I say that my dislike for Spring (and annotations) is not based on ignorance.
It's perfectly possible to work for 26 years with Java and not ever seriously touch Spring, or AWT, or Swing, or the EE bits, etc. Java is sprawling, and a corporate backend developer and a mobile frontend developer may have little intersection in the big libraries, and even the approaches, they use.
It's perfectly fine to never have touched Spring. What surprised me is not acknowledging that not only are annotations used to do clerical things like @Override or @Deprecated, and not only to do some weird wiring with @Injected or @RequestBody, but allow to add large custom steps in transforming the code. Annotation processors are a huge comptime interface that can do, and routinely does, wild things, unimaginable in Go, the kind of code transformations you would expect in Lisp or Python.
I suspect the latter should have interesting security implications, too.
Java is sprawling now. It wasn’t 26 years ago.
Just 20 years ago it was already sprawling.
But your dislike can be a lot of other things which are not objective the slightest sense. I mean, your whole article is a subjective piece. Also, stating about something that you “dislike” something as large as Spring as a whole is usually a huge red flag for anybody, just like how liking it without reservations is also a huge red flag.
Yes, of course it’s (largely) subjective. But I have actually read much of the source code of Spring. I know it _very_ well.
From my point of view, it seemed from you article that you didn't even really understand functional languages in two decades (at least Haskell), which it seemed you to try to state also. So that doesn't matter too much.
Anyway, I just wanted to say, that it's totally pointless to state something like "I know it well"... Say what's your problem with it, "I don't like it" doesn't add anything to the conversation. I'm quite sure whatever you would say as problems, most people would agree, maybe there would be even tips under it how to prevent it. That will never happen with the kind of comments which you made above.
Spring was a great DI framework that I only use for DI.
All the big magic annotations are for Enterprise.
Okay, I've occasionally done a couple spring boot rest, which was ... Fine ... As long as you didn't have to do anything even remotely and complicated, but it keeps you in this weird box of middle performance.
If you've ever been on any large Enterprise spring Java project, you know what the future of vibe coded enterprise is bringing.