EU and west finally TRYING to protect their market the way China is doing it all the time. They tax, ban, espionage everything beneficial to their society.
Well if I'm from EU and if I know my government doesn't do espionage and all sorts of nasty things, I'd really be very worried. They (the government and its agencies) are supposed to do the nasty jobs, and it is very incompetent if they don't do so.
“Protect their market” - And yet the U.S. and Europe are richer than ever.
It’s hilarious seeing the US oligarchs distracting from the fact that they’ve transferred massive amounts of wealth from the broader society to themselves by blaming every one else.
There is a fair argument to protect strategic industries and actions like these are probably needed, but let’s not pretend the “markets” are at risk because of anything China is doing, which is essentially giving Americans and Europeans actual stuff in return for pieces of paper.
If you think the west will remain the dominant force it has been without access to superior technology in business and metallurgy in military and manufacturing, I’d like some of what you’re smoking
communism is actually exactly the opposite of that. this is rutheless capitalism 101 from china vs religious left/right fights of the west boosted by not in my backyard individualism.
West lived for too long for too good, to start believe that they can do whatever, and live good.
Economic Nationalism is not Communism by any sense. Nor is responding to mercantilism.
But the CCP explicitly considers themselves Marxism-Leninism with and their internal beliefs and government structure is structurally follows that.
We consider them Communists and they consider themselves Communist. They do not consider us Communist and we don't either.
You're trying to create a false conflation here and stir division. I'm interested in whose interests comments like yours really reflect. It's certainly not the truth.
So what exactly are you learning in this case from the actions, the data, the private citizens or the scholars, that is so different from "Western" explanations?
I think that's fine. High politics is always very nasty, and any written contracts are supposed to be teared apart. I think the elites of whatever countries are mature enough to eat it.
Regarding us, the human resources, it is irrelevant however we think.
Oh please take that crackpot stuff to 4chan or something.
I can read about both sides of the Gaza conflict just fine in evil Western media. It is quite plain to see (read) that Israel is doing some really bad shit there after an, in the grand scheme of things, "less bad" attack on itself. About the pandemic... yes, mistakes were made. There was a dangerous situation and no one was really sure what to do. It's like some people realized for the first time that the government has power and that it isn't always acting in the way they'd prefer. Big fucking deal. I guess a lot of people didn't really understand how the world around them is structured before it bit them in the ass. It's not that bad though, compared to other places and times in the world.
That's not some s** that someone made up. They/We created an unstoppable beast. They thought that China would be like India or Vietnam or so. Nope.
You name it, they build it.
We can only "regulate" it - see what Europe has come up with to justify it - with the CO2 nonsense, "human rights" and all that. More regulations are the only way to prevent to get your market over flooded by products that you can't possibly build at that speed and cost (and not necessarily quality, but finally, most of what we use come from there and aren't MacBooks good? or fridges/TVs/phones, etc).
I frankly am not sure why people keep on downvoting this comment without providing a counter argument or whatever. I would like to be contradicted rather than downvoted (that too, if you can take 2 minutes to at least say why).
That’s a myth. Yes, we allow them to move faster—much faster—but it’s simply because their government is more efficient.
Western society, in contrast, runs on a kind of religion. People follow a few belief systems: socialism, right-wing conservatism, and perhaps liberalism as a softer sub-flavor.
Here’s the fun part: China learned the hard way that no single dogma—whether communism or anything else—is worth worshiping if it leaves people hungry. They’ve mixed communism, socialism, and raw capitalism, using whatever tools best serve their progress. Ruthless goal achievement.
Meanwhile, Western society has turned the left-versus-right divide into something resembling the conflict between major branches of Islam—where factions despise and fight each other. It’s extremely foolish.
It's soolish, like any blind reglion following. And yeah, with this divide we have, we all become religios == stupid.
It's not a myth - China wouldn't be in this situation without Nike/etc. going there in the 80's to "reduce" costs (to actually increase their profits). That triggered the whole chain. They thought they could just jump ship when the prices would increase, but what they didn't expect was that they had a guy that instead of getting just fatter and fatter (like many leaders in the world who finally become corrupt etc) actually had a vision for his country, and it's working out. It's the best implementation of the boiling frog metaphor.
About the rest of the post - I would say it's a bit more complicated than just black or white.
EU and west finally TRYING to protect their market the way China is doing it all the time. They tax, ban, espionage everything beneficial to their society.
China would do it without a blink.
Well if I'm from EU and if I know my government doesn't do espionage and all sorts of nasty things, I'd really be very worried. They (the government and its agencies) are supposed to do the nasty jobs, and it is very incompetent if they don't do so.
The West has not been trying to protect their market? What do you thing those wars have been all about?
Freedom, liberty and the pursuit of happiness?
“Protect their market” - And yet the U.S. and Europe are richer than ever.
It’s hilarious seeing the US oligarchs distracting from the fact that they’ve transferred massive amounts of wealth from the broader society to themselves by blaming every one else.
There is a fair argument to protect strategic industries and actions like these are probably needed, but let’s not pretend the “markets” are at risk because of anything China is doing, which is essentially giving Americans and Europeans actual stuff in return for pieces of paper.
If you think the west will remain the dominant force it has been without access to superior technology in business and metallurgy in military and manufacturing, I’d like some of what you’re smoking
China liberalized their economy to compete with Western economies, showing their leaders don’t really believe in communism.
And the US and Europe are moving towards command economies to keep up with China, showing their politicians don’t really believe in liberalism.
Liberalized? You mean "you can come here as long as I can copy/paste your products and push you out of business"?
That's what liberal economies are about, right. :)
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australia%E2%80%93Timor-Leste_...
Uh, you gotta understand that China has never been alone.
They would, they do and they did it. But we called them communists for doing so. ;)
communism is actually exactly the opposite of that. this is rutheless capitalism 101 from china vs religious left/right fights of the west boosted by not in my backyard individualism.
West lived for too long for too good, to start believe that they can do whatever, and live good.
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Comrade Karremans it is then…
> But we called them communists for doing so. ;)
What?
They view themselves as communists. Moreover, all these policies have nothing to do with communism.
Economic Nationalism is not Communism by any sense. Nor is responding to mercantilism.
But the CCP explicitly considers themselves Marxism-Leninism with and their internal beliefs and government structure is structurally follows that.
We consider them Communists and they consider themselves Communist. They do not consider us Communist and we don't either.
You're trying to create a false conflation here and stir division. I'm interested in whose interests comments like yours really reflect. It's certainly not the truth.
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You're not a murderer for killing in self defence. You are allowed to defend yourself.
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So what exactly are you learning in this case from the actions, the data, the private citizens or the scholars, that is so different from "Western" explanations?
[flagged]
Do you have anything to say that isn't childish spleen venting?
> As soon as it gets inconvenient or the table is turned, they are dropped like a hot potato.
I am confused. Are non-“western” stars/nations better in this regard? I am not sure I understand what you are trying to say.
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I think that's fine. High politics is always very nasty, and any written contracts are supposed to be teared apart. I think the elites of whatever countries are mature enough to eat it.
Regarding us, the human resources, it is irrelevant however we think.
Yes, Fourier Transform never lies when you get it right. :-/s
Touché :)
Oh please take that crackpot stuff to 4chan or something.
I can read about both sides of the Gaza conflict just fine in evil Western media. It is quite plain to see (read) that Israel is doing some really bad shit there after an, in the grand scheme of things, "less bad" attack on itself. About the pandemic... yes, mistakes were made. There was a dangerous situation and no one was really sure what to do. It's like some people realized for the first time that the government has power and that it isn't always acting in the way they'd prefer. Big fucking deal. I guess a lot of people didn't really understand how the world around them is structured before it bit them in the ass. It's not that bad though, compared to other places and times in the world.
[dead]
> inferiority complex about China.
That's not some s** that someone made up. They/We created an unstoppable beast. They thought that China would be like India or Vietnam or so. Nope.
You name it, they build it.
We can only "regulate" it - see what Europe has come up with to justify it - with the CO2 nonsense, "human rights" and all that. More regulations are the only way to prevent to get your market over flooded by products that you can't possibly build at that speed and cost (and not necessarily quality, but finally, most of what we use come from there and aren't MacBooks good? or fridges/TVs/phones, etc).
I frankly am not sure why people keep on downvoting this comment without providing a counter argument or whatever. I would like to be contradicted rather than downvoted (that too, if you can take 2 minutes to at least say why).
That’s a myth. Yes, we allow them to move faster—much faster—but it’s simply because their government is more efficient.
Western society, in contrast, runs on a kind of religion. People follow a few belief systems: socialism, right-wing conservatism, and perhaps liberalism as a softer sub-flavor.
Here’s the fun part: China learned the hard way that no single dogma—whether communism or anything else—is worth worshiping if it leaves people hungry. They’ve mixed communism, socialism, and raw capitalism, using whatever tools best serve their progress. Ruthless goal achievement.
Meanwhile, Western society has turned the left-versus-right divide into something resembling the conflict between major branches of Islam—where factions despise and fight each other. It’s extremely foolish.
It's soolish, like any blind reglion following. And yeah, with this divide we have, we all become religios == stupid.
It's not a myth - China wouldn't be in this situation without Nike/etc. going there in the 80's to "reduce" costs (to actually increase their profits). That triggered the whole chain. They thought they could just jump ship when the prices would increase, but what they didn't expect was that they had a guy that instead of getting just fatter and fatter (like many leaders in the world who finally become corrupt etc) actually had a vision for his country, and it's working out. It's the best implementation of the boiling frog metaphor.
About the rest of the post - I would say it's a bit more complicated than just black or white.
1 reply →