Comment by blablabla123
6 days ago
Somewhat related OpenBSD is the fundament of my self-hosted homelab since it runs DNS, DHCP, a firewall router and a small local web server. Configuration is a dream compared to Linux and probably even compared to FreeBSD. You just need to go through the FAQ and copy&paste the relevant examples and modify them as needed. I don't know why it's so complicated on Linux where you need to appease a handful of daemons and find your way through a labyrinth of config files. I run a separate Linux based KVM host though.
OpenBSD is a very well kept secret that very few people are aware of. As close to nirvana as I can manage.
The fact I miss pretty much all the drama around the latest corporate take over attempts on Linux is just icing on the cake. The toxic slug strategy is an amazing one that more open source projects should use.
Openbsd split from netbsd back in the day as the original toxic slug, so it is amusing to call it a releif today
sorry which one was toxic, netbsd or openbsd?
What do you mean by "toxic slug strategy"?
I can't find the article where I read it, many years ago now, but it was about strategies that small communities can adopt to keep their culture from being subsumed by the mainstream.
One was to pick a set of norms repugnant to the mainstream that everyone currently in the community can tolerate and enforce them rigorously on all new members. This will limit the appeal of the community to people like the ones currently there and will make sure that it never grows too big.
Thus your community is as appetising to activists attempting a hostile takeover as a toxic slug is to a bird.
As an example from six years ago, when the code of conduct madness had just reached its peak:
>I believe OpenBSD's code of conduct can be summed up as "if you are the type of person who needs a code of conduct to teach to you how to human then you are not welcome here".
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There are a few nice to haves that would really help me out with making an open bsd transition. I thought of writing them myself because I am getting very fed up with Linux for the above reasons.
- IDE support is an issue still
- Filesystem challenging when using a laptop that runs out of battery
- MATE lacking volume and WiFi controls
- This one is just me being picky but a GUI to help me gain a better understanding of the security settings or alternatively more up to date books.
- I am not exactly sure on how to correctly use virtualization and I need it to support docker workloads at work
Your points are valid but I'd like to present counterpoints:
> IDE support is an issue still
IMO, languages and platforms that require IDEs, also leads to complex software that is hard to maintain. The only exception is smalltalk.
> Filesystem challenging when using a laptop that runs out of battery
Easily resolved by using apmd and it `-z` flag. I think there's a couple utility out there that you can script for monitoring battery level.
> MATE lacking volume and WiFi controls
One of the good strength of OpenBSD is that the cli utilities are quite nice that I've not installed gui replacements (I'm using cwm). I don't mind doing a few `doas ifconfig` every once in a while.
> but a GUI to help me gain a better understanding of the security settings
I'm with you on that one. But the man pages are truly extensive. And the OS code is fairly readable.
> how to correctly use virtualization
Current vm solution is very bare. For docker, you'll need a linux VM, but the installation process maybe troublesome. It only supports serial interaction, which can be disabled by default in some distros.
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> - IDE support is an issue still
I thought it was about the parallel ATA. And I tought "who uses that still?!" but is about IDEs for programming...
sorry about the topic deviation, but I laughed hard.
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> alternatively more up to date books.
One of the reasons you don't see a lot of books around OpenBSD (aside from the very small userbase) is that the built-in documentation is so good. The manpages are actually worth reading, and for the more complex services, include examples and additional reading.
But still, the rest of your points are very true. OpenBSD is really not for everybody, but I think that's one of its strengths. It works extremely well for the people it works for, because it's not trying to coax new users into the fold.
Also, you know, like you don't have to use OpenBSD for everything. I still have plenty of Linux servers, and Linux computers, because there are some things OpenBSD is not suited to.
Shoutout to OpenBSD.amsterdam for providing a wonderful hosted OpenBSD VPS. It is indeed pretty close to nirvana.
It’s also behind the times
In terms of?
By behind the times you mean hot garbage for larpers. OpenBSD is cosplay for old men.
My impression is that the BSD's are laser-focused on providing efficient environments for networking backbone software to exist in, so special attention is paid to making it easy to orchestrate everything with rc.conf and keeping anything not required for these goals out of the default installation; while Linux (and its distributions) being far more general-purpose naturally will take more configuration.
Linux packaging tools are bad and the people who make Linux packages generally don't do a very good job at it limited by tools and motivation.
So much linux software doesn't come with sane defaults out of the box, doesn't have an easy path to common desired configurations, and doesn't have reasonable documentation. PARTICULARLY for "open" software that has a paid hosted option.
I say this after decades of a career where a very large proportion of the frustration and "stupid work" I've had to do involved getting a piece of software to do something obvious.
Working with the BSDs is just delightful in how wanting to do something turns into something working with ease.
That one is not a Linux problem, though - if any such software ran on BSD, the vendor would be likely to stifle it in the same way.
And otherwise, I don't know what software you're thinking of that is easier to deploy on BSD than on Linux.
To be blunt, the only reason this is a problem on Linux and not BSD is that no relevant software runs on BSD at all.
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OpenBSD used to run my network but Plan 9, specifically 9front is even easier. Everything is configured using NDB which is a flat text file containing entries for each system on the network. On my CPU server I run DHCP, DNS and TFTPd, which are three lines in /cfg/$sysname/cpurc. That's it. No init system and no /etc. Just start the programs which all look at the same central database for config info. When I setup PXE booting it took literally 5 minutes of adding the tftpd line, adding an extra bootf= tuple in the machines ndb entry, a plan9.ini in /cfg/pxe and I had a machine pxe booting 9front over the network when turned on.
> I don't know why it's so complicated on Linux where you need to appease a handful of daemons and find your way through a labyrinth of config files.
Not too mention that some newer servers you might want to run are containerised and have few, if any, instructions for how to set them up without containers.
Speaking of Linux, OpenBSD’s hypervisor (vmm) supports it so I managed to get docker and containers running on my server via Alpine Linux. Opens the door on all the latest ‘modern server stuff’ running happily on an OBSD box.
Have you dealt with hardware failure or instability yet? It can be pretty annoying to pin down and isolate, unless you keep an order of magnitude of hoarded hardware around.
Time and attention are always in short supply.