Comment by myrmidon
5 days ago
> You don't even know what physics or particles are as yet undiscovered
You would not need the simulation to be perfect; there is ample evidence that our brains a quite robust against disturbances.
> just because you simulated a brain atom by atom, does not mean you have a consciousness.
If you don't want that to be true, you need some kind of magic, that makes the simulation behave differently from reality.
How would a simulation of your brain react to an question that you would answer "consciously"? If it gives the same responds to the same inputs, how could you argue it isnt't conscious?
> If it is the arrangement of matter that gives rise to consciousness, then would that new consciousness be the same person or not?
The simulated consciousness would be a different one from the original; both could exist at the same time and would be expected to diverge. But their reactions/internal state/thoughts could be matched at least for an instant, and be very similar for potentially much longer.
I think this is just Occams razor applied to our minds: There is no evidence whatsoever that our thinking is linked to anything outside of our brains, or outside the realm of physics.
> "quite robust against disturbances."
does not mean that the essential thing gives rise to consciousness is only approximate. To give an example from software, you can write software is robust against bad input, attempts to crash it, even bit flips. But, if I came in and just changed a single character in the source code, that may cause it to fail compilation, fail to run, or become quite buggy.
> If you don't want that to be true, you need some kind of magic,
This is just what I'm saying is a false dichotomy. The only reason some are unable to see beyond it is that we think the basic logic we understand are all there could be.
In this respect physics has been very helpful, because without peering into reality, we would have kept deluding ourselves that pure reason was enough to understand the world.
It's like trying to explain quantum mechanics to a well educated person or scientist from the 16th century without the benefit of experimental evidence. No way they'd believe you. In fact, they'd accuse you of violating basic logic.
How is it a false dichotomy? If you want consciousness to NOT be simulateable, then you need some essential component to our minds that can't be simulated (call it soul or whatever) and for that thing to interface with our physical bodies (obviously).
We have zero evidence for either.
> does not mean that the essential thing gives rise to consciousness is only approximate
But we have 8 billion different instances that are presumably conscious; plenty of them have all kinds of defects, and the whole architecture has been derived by a completely mechanical process free of any understanding (=> evolution/selection).
On the other hand, there is zero evidence of consciousness continuing/running before or after our physical brains are operational.
> plenty of them have all kinds of defects,
Defects that have not rendered them unconscious, as long as they still are alive. You seem not to see the circularity of your argument.
I gave you an example to show that robustness against adverse conditions is NOT the same as internal resiliency. Those defect, as far as we know, are not affecting the origin of consciousness itself. Which is my point.
> How is it a false dichotomy? If you want consciousness to NOT be simulateable, then you need some essential component to our minds that can't be simulated (call it soul or whatever) and for that thing to interface with our physical bodies (obviously).
If you need two things to happen at the same time in sync with each other no matter if they are separated by billions of miles, then you need faster-than-light travel, or some magic [1]; see what I did there?
1. I.e., quantum entanglement
6 replies →
dude u need to do some psychedelics.