Carice TC2 – A non-digital electric car

3 months ago (caricecars.com)

I like the idea, and we need variety in the market to keep things evolving, but I like the bells and whistles. I just don't want it to phone home. Honestly, I want the title to be 'we don't have a network connection and we can still be a car'. Privacy is my #1 feature.

  • I own 3 EVs. Two of those, from 2012 and 2014, were built with 3G modems, and fully lost connectivity in 2022 when the 3G networks were turned down. Nothing changed, not even an error message inside the car, except that trying to connect to them with their apps now fails. They're still totally functional cars. The failure mode on both appears to have been "guess I don't have service, I'll sleep the modem." Bluetooth still works, but even if that failed one of them has a functional CD player!

    My newer EV that came with LTE connectivity will also fully work without network connectivity, except for the apps and remote updates. You can turn off the built-in cell connectivity via the head unit menus, and if you're especially paranoid, you can pull the fuse on the modem (and I've done it!). When it doesn't have a network connection it too operates just like a normal car.

    There's a lot of fear around EVs being "software on wheels" based on a few manufacturers making non-remote features that depend on remote connectivity and botching updates or requiring subscriptions, and I agree that all is super problematic both from a privacy perspective and point-of-failure reason. But there's absolutely nothing intrinsic to the core design of EVs that demands that they're connected to the network.

  • I have a BYD Seal and this was as simple as removing the SIM (it's in the armrest compartment and just pops out).

    • On some cars you can also unplug whatever radio/modem doodad is responsible for phoning home. I have a Ford Maverick and disconnected the "telemetry module" which resides under the transmission hump by the front passenger seat.

      I no longer receive updates to the infotainment system and I can't unlock the doors with my phone, but I also don't have the dealer emailing me service ads with my exact current mileage and tire pressure.

    • How does this interact with the EU "eCall" mandate? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ECall

      (one of those things I've seen very little discussion of, the WP page correctly points out that this mandates a mobile-station in every car; although it does not precisely mandate that it be always-on, in practice it will be in order to manage messaging promptly)

      8 replies →

    • I mean, even back in the OnStar days, you could "opt out" and cancel the service and it would track you anyway. With BYD or any other car maker, I'd be worried the SIM was a placebo.

      19 replies →

  • Privacy, and I don't need my car to be a driving collection of CVEs 10-20 years from now, because of some built-in modem that's ancient by then.

  • It would also save the manufacturer from having to put stuff like "collect data on drivers’ sexual activity and sex lives" in their privacy policy.

    I really don't get this insane need to track everything. The computers in cars should be pull data, never push.

  • Speaking of variety in the market: does anyone know how the capital barrier for developing an EV compares to a combustion drivetrain?

    I wonder if, now that China has a developed supply ecosystem, it's becoming possible to build a car with lots of commodity/white-label parts. And I wonder if, as the quality of this supply chain improves, that means we'll start to see more small players emerge?

    (Pure speculation)

    • That would be an interesting startup – manufacturing and supplying core EV components, all the way to rolling chassis.

  • A data connection still has tangible benefits e.g. remotely starting the AC/heating, live status of chargers / route planning, online map updates, eCall etc

    • If only I could trust that is all it did. I want 'airplane mode' for my vehicle. I turn my phone to 'airplane' mode all the time specifically because I don't want to give them access to where I am and all the other telemetry. I want incredibly strong protections that their network access isn't abused. Tools like logging all connections by application and the ability to block anything. Blocking when these tools can use the network (only when I have actively let them because I am actively using it for example) and opt-out by default with independent third party auditing of everything they release so I can build trust. I want real guarantees with real consequences when they are broken. I want devices to be mine, not theirs. Right now it is like someone has keys to my house and regularly comes in and installs hidden cameras without my permission. It is evil and people should go to jail for it. Unfortunately though, right now I have 100% trust that they will abuse their position which means I see every 'feature' that connects in any way as a major negative and not a positive. It is deeply unfortunate because I want to enjoy the things I pay for instead of treating them like the enemy that they currently are.

    • Exactly. If the last decade has shown us anything, consumers will always opt for the convenience features and cost far ahead of privacy concerns. I can't think of many successful consumer products with privacy as their key selling point, despite how many times it shows up here. Apple products maybe, but privacy is listed as feature #6 of the 7 features highlighted halfway down the page on https://www.apple.com/iphone/

  • It's a good thing cars aren't required to have a visible, unique identifier or government and corporations might be able to track your movements.

    • As with everything to do with society and computerised features, it is a matter of scale.

      Cameras reading numbers plates at multiple locations -including speed! - is one thing.

      Noting your : location, speed, direction in subsecond increments, your climate control preferences, what songs/eBook you are listening to, your face imagery (thanks sleep alert camera) and listening to your conversations... this is a whole other level of possible privacy invasion.

      Is all of the above being tracked? I could imagine much of that is unwieldy, or not that useful, data. But how can you know whether a company is taking this data or not without first being suspicious? And if you are suspicious at this level, then what could a company say to convince you they are above board, and only using your data to your benefit.

  • > Privacy is my #1 feature.

    I respect your choice, but do you walk the walk - don't carry a phone, no bluetooth devices, built your own router, run no javascript on your browser, etc, etc, etc.

I like the general design very much. And additionally the fact that it is small, lightweight, and not imposing, while apparently being a fast car.

Except for one thing: the brushed metal dashboard. I can imagine how terribly it's going to reflect the sun from behind when the roof is folded. I hope they can offer a tasteful matte dark version.

As of the lack of bells and whistles, the dashboard seems to be prepared for being customized. I suppose it's not a cheap car, so a customization job is not going to ruin the buyer's finances. I can imagine that a custom radio with protected but visible vacuum tubes could appeal to some buyers.

  • That dash stood out to me as well. Would definitely want wood or leather or a darker matte metal.

    • I'm assuming that its stainless. it were were aggressive about it, it would take a patina for anything from grey to black. stainless also develops a really wide variety of colors if you heat treat it in an oven with good temperature control. there a bronze-like color that's nice, and also a blue.

      I'm amused to see that so many cybertrucks have been powder coated or wrapped in vinyl.

      8 replies →

  • 'engined-turned stainless' (not brushed.) was used in vintage race cars because it was the non-reflective option and looked nice. hid tooling marks from manufacture.

  • Totally agree. Dashboard felt like a thorn in the eye.

    • Same for me. The car looks beautiful and then you see the dashboard and it's just plain ugly. Doesn't match the rest of the car at all. It's easy enough to simply offer another trim option for the dash though.

Analog in what sense? No digital readouts?

It has a standard EV charge port, so it's definitely got computers in it somewhere to negotiate charging at a minimum.

  • The post's title was editorialized: the archived page makes no mention of analog. The neutral title would be "The 100% electric Carice TC2: a real retro head-turner".

    I think OP meant there were no screens in the sparse cockpit, just some analog gauges.

    And yeah electric cars need a battery management computer, a charge controller, and a motor controller at least.

    • Out of curiosity, are those components standardized/swappable between manufacturers/models, or customized for each individual make/model?

      So much of "old school" auto maintenance was having a relatively standardized size/fit for similar components.

      1 reply →

Some choice quotes:

> Prices for a TC2 start at €44.500 excluding taxes (€53.854 including 21% btw/Dutch tax).

> The Carice TC2 complies with the European regulations and can therefore be driven in all EU countries and countries that adopt those regulations, like Switzerland, the United Kingdom, Monaco and Norway.

  • Saw that. It's a plaything for the wealthy, not anything like the small spartan EV that we really need.

    • It very much looks like it's designed to be your second/third/tenth car. Not as impractical as a daily driver as most sports cars, but you won't use it for a trip to Ikea either

      5 replies →

    • Keep in mind a Tesla Model 3 costs €45-60k in the Netherlands, it's one of the most expensive countries for buying private vehicles.

      If you built the same car in China it would cost €15k or less. Eventually with enough volume they could probably cut the price in half, producing in one of the cheaper eastern european countries which already have strong manufacturing hubs.

    • For something of the value proposition of an Mazda MX5 with Nissan Figaro styling, I mean it's not terribly far off the mark. If you want the average Top Gear readers budget choice, the Renault 5 with 255 miles of WLTP range is about €32-34k as an 'everyman' Supermini without serious compromises in any particular area.

      Short of getting some sub-BYD CDM manufacturer to compete directly, there's not much scope out there to cut much further than that for an acceptable 2+2 QOL car in 2025. Mainly I can see the likes of Dacia cutting corners in the interior to crew-cab standard and releasing a low-tide mark EV like their proposed 'Hipster'.

      Dacia has stated that the target price for the entry-level Hipster is planned at around €12-15k - undercutting Dacia's most affordable electric model, the Spring, with an entry RRP of around €18,000 euros.

      https://www.carscoops.com/2025/10/dacia-hipster-previews-dir...

  • I thought the whole point of not going digital is to save on all this screens and software crap.

Lovin' this! Though I'm not a fan of the design but like the spirit of it.

I can't fathom why we can't have a modern car with analog displays and switches in the cockpit.

I own a 25 years old car which only has a digital radio (removeable!) and that's it, perfectly enough.

  • Look at the Bugatti Tourbillon. About as analog-appearing as it gets. Clearly there’s a recognition that this is what luxury looks like — but switches (let alone dials!) cost more than touch screens.

  • No fuel injection or electronic ignition? I'm sure there's an ECU somewhere in the vehicle.

    • This is the sentiment completely.

      My 34-year old base spec Chevrolet has digital controls for timing advance, fuel trim, and integrated Engine and Transmission Control Units. But my dash has some analog components ( fuel level is variable voltage instead of PWM ). The mechanics would all say that my truck is very simple, and "old school"

      The Lay use of 'analog' is far removed from function. As long as there isn't a screen, it isn't seen to be digital. I studied photography in college and loved shooting film. I have a processing machine that is based on a 6502. When people would talk about non-digital things as analog it would bug me (One is chemical, and one is a computer).

      8 replies →

I would gladly pay extra (in terms of OEM's profit margin) for a de-contented EV that aims to stay reliable, offline, and be easier to field-repair and upgrade as components improve. Our phones are better than any infotainment system. Batteries and motors will get better in time.

https://www.slate.auto 's pickup seems to be heading in this direction, and now Carice enters in a higher-end market segment. If someone does a minivan or other people-hauler configuration similarly, I'd be first in line.

Some specs about the car:

- 31.5kWh

- 630kg

- 300km (186mi) range

This review explains the concept behind the car in more detail: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4aTzuUrdyIc

  • Lack of DC fast charging makes the range even more limiting. It takes 2.7 hours to add another 150 miles. Modern EVs can add 150 miles of range in 10-15 minutes.

    • It's a recreational vehicle for booting around to and from the country club and out to the fancy places that European gentlemen go on afternoon Sunday drives to impress their mistresses.

      Oh that reminds me, I should go check my lottery ticket.

    • They’re a Dutch company.

      You can drive from just about any point in the Netherlands to any other in less than 300km.

      For a weekend toy in the densely populated parts of Europe the range is fine.

    • Take a look at the video the car driving. I don't think people who buy this are worried about range anxiety.

  • 300 km with an extra battery. 200 km and 590 kg with a smaller one. It's about weight of a Lotus Elan, a bit heavier than a Fiat 500.

Would be great to read about it but my residential internet has apparently been blocked for "malicious activity".

  • From the pictures, this is the kind of vehicle that you would gladly pay extra to have delivered to your second vacation home so you can park it next to your 6 other semi-exotic cars and drive it half a mile to the country club on Saturdays.

    If that is not your demographic, they might have geo-located your IP and blocked you based on the median income of your area. (Only half joking.)

    • It's about 44 grand. It's definitely not "country club" money.

      Not a hell of a lot more than say a Fiat 500E convertible, and quite a bit cooler.

    • Oh, c’mon, it’s 44K. One can easily spend 30K or more on a motorcycle these days, we are a long way from “country club” prices. If it came to the U. S., I’d probably pick one up to park next to our Hyundai (yeah, a Hyundai, not a Range Rover).

      5 replies →

  • You're Web browser probably isn't leaking enough identifiable information for the site to judge whether or not you're a bot, so it default to denying you.

  • It looks like a kit car version of a Porsche 356 crossed with a Nissan Figaro.

    It actually looks rather more expensive than it is - it's about 44,000EUR putting it at the same sort of money as a Focus ST. Expensive toy, but not horribly so.

    Unsure what it's based on, probably (like the Figaro) some fairly inexpensive existing car's subframes.

This reminds me of eGolf, and, I think, this is the right way to go for electric cars. They shouldn’t be apps on wheels, they should be cars, but with an electric motor.

1) Cool, i hope they get lots of orders. 2) We're not past the 'zero emissions' rhetoric? I get evals 'at the tailpipe,' yet i think we've come past that line of thinking (e.g. Fairphone's Cameroon country outline inside the phone, behind the battery cover) 3) Will be interesting to compare results to other cars, e.g. Slate, which approach a similar need/desire from a remarkably different angle.

  • What's the issue with the zero emissions rhetoric?

    • I guess the complaint is that electricity production is not zero emissions in most of the world, so it could be considered misleading.

      I don't think it makes sense, ICE vehicle emission ratings have never included the drilling, refining, and transportation of fuel, and the alternative is for every vehicle to just advertise "unknown emissions" because it's impossible for the manufacturer to know anything beyond what the vehicle itself produces.

    • There are still emissions during production and decommissioning. And cars are sources of noise and light, and emissions due to component wear (tires and brakes, probably others as well). A specific car may be not as bad as others for the environment, but there is always some impact.

      1 reply →

    • It's not legal to operate on public roads without a human behind the wheel and humans are known to emit CO2.

Too cute for the price tag. But seriously bad design choice of having a plug port in the trunk. Looks like you could close it and lock it, but still.

  • I also got a bad impression from that, but upon further reflection, it's a more interesting choice. Keeping the plug port in the trunk means that the charging cable (kept in the trunk) can stay semi-permanently plugged into the car, which is perhaps nice when you're charging away from home. The question I have is, because the cable goes through a cut-out in the trunk to reach the charger, how well that holds up to rain, attempts to break into the trunk, etc.

I don't see anything on the web site about the car not being digital. It's just an advertisement. The title is misleading and should be changed to the target page's title.

I also don't see mention of the battery technology, though maybe I didn't look hard enough. I'd want it to be LFP.

Looks a little like a first gen Daihatsu Copen, and I mean that as a complement: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daihatsu_Copen#First_generatio...

  • I'd call it a Porsche 356 Speedster homage. But the Copen mostly likely drew its inspiration from the 356 as well.

    The 54HP is right about what a 356 would have made with the larger engines, and the price with VAT is inflation-adjusted, roughly identical as well.

Not a fan of how this car would work ergonomically. Center mounted speedo is annoying and there's zero attempt to prevent glare from them. I also can't tell what's going on with all of the switches on the passenger's side and the handbreak.

590kg is amazing. Not a big fan of the body design, although it's not terrible. I want a hard top option with all wheel drive. I would love to daily a lightweight electric coupe, but it must be able to deal with the snow.

I like the design, but I can't see myself owning it beyond having it as a hobby vehicle to around town. I've grown far too used to a GPS screen, rear camera and an entertainment system (free of ads thanks to my streaming subscription).

  • I have to agree. A car with a digital dashboard an infotainment system doesn’t need to feel “complicated”. I get they want as little automation as possible, and I’m fine with giving up on lane keeping, adaptive cruise control, forward safety systems, and eve a rear camera (I often just use the mirrors anyway), but not my music and maps.

I was hoping for a lower price, but it does appear that these are not mass produced like most car manufacturers and they do have some nice designs on them, which I'm sure adds to the cost.

Nice, a cross between the 356 and the Copen. Price is ~55000 Euros including taxes. They're Dutch, I wonder who is backing them, this looks like an expensive thing to develop.

This is nice! not a big fan of the design and would really prefer a fixed roof but the concept is still a good one and the avoidance of all the digital doodads is great!

Need bikes like this too, not with a huge touch screen than cannot be tucked away or removed, replaceable batteries and air less tires

The round shapes and the glossiness make this looks like a plastic toy car to me. I wouldn't be surprised to see a toddler in it.

Yes, but will it withstand an EMP?

Granted, it's better than the status quo, which probably couldn't withstand a Flipper Zero...

No CCS, only Type 2? That's odd.

  • 200km and 300km (I guess) WLTP mean a very small battery pack, so AC only charging seems pretty normal. It's probably some ~8-10 years old technology put in a small chassis.

    • My 2015 Tesla S has ten year old technology and does DC fast charging. It's a solved problem. You can buy a Dongfeng Nammi Box compact car with 42 kWh battery 310 km WLTP range for 169 kNOK in Norway, that's 14.3 kEUR but it's probably more expensive in the rest of Europe. Still it's much cheaper and can DC charge at 70 kW.

      If you live in a flat as many do in the Netherlands DC fast charging might well be the only practical way to charge a vehicle. So I think this is just a toy for the well off who have off street parking.

      1 reply →

  • Must be quite low power engine + small battery system for that to work and translate to the promised charging time

Light, open, and hence not crashworthy. I'd hesitate to recommend such a sexy way to end one's enduring boredom...

I like the fact that it looks like a "classic" car. I was very disappointed when the electric Mustang looked like any other electric car and not like a classic Mustang.

Oh, yet another luxury EV.

Wake me up when a manufacturer finally commits to making an EV that everyone can afford and isn't a cloud-connected privacy nightmare.