Comment by qqxufo
8 hours ago
Two separate levers determine how meaningful this is: distribution friction and runtime parity. Distribution friction = install prompts, default store, ability to deep-link to a store listing, auto-updates, and payment flows. Runtime parity = access to the same OS APIs/entitlements (push, background tasks, NFC, etc.) without extra fees.
If Apple keeps scary interstitials, disables auto-updates for non–App Store apps, or taxes critical entitlements, you get malicious compliance. If regulators require neutral prompts, update parity, and ban API tolls, alternative stores become viable—even if only for niches (thin-margin games, enterprise, open-source).
The metric to watch isn’t “are alt stores allowed,” but how many taps from web → install → update. If that gets close to App Store levels, behavior will follow. If not, it’s the EU story all over again.
The whole concept of “third party App Store” is just to add friction to the whole thing.
Alice wants to use a program made by Bob. Apple won’t allow Alice to do so unless Bob pays a fee to Apple. With third party app stores, they’re just allowing _different_ middlemen. What we actually want is to be rid of middlemen imposing arbitrary restrictions on how Alice can use her own device.
> What we actually want is to be rid of middlemen imposing arbitrary restrictions on how Alice can use her own device
Isn’t it difficult to do this without rolling out a welcome mat for NSO et al?
I don't see the problem here. Nobody should be able to install or disallow installation of software on a device except for the end user.
3 replies →
I, for one, won’t be installing anything from the NSO Store. Sure, call me paranoid, but I just don’t trust it.
Sideloading is nice and good but realistically most users are just gonna go to app stores, because they make things easy and convenient.
I prefer middlemen, especially for something like a phone. But even on a server I would rather be limited to using the OS packages from official repositories, and have a process in place if i need to compile something myself, I also think that process should be more involved than simply running as root.
I am afraid that making it too easy to install anything you want on modern smartphones is going to be a problem. Imagine how many are going to end up in botnets.
> I am afraid that making it too easy to install anything you want on modern smartphones is going to be a problem. Imagine how many are going to end up in botnets.
Android _already_ has this problem. It takes a few extra taps / coaching to get somebody to install an arbitrary and malicious APK but it's doable now. Moving towards a "if google didn't sign it and distribute it, you shall not run it" future won't really prevent the ignorant laity from installing malware regardless. The rest of us, however, are going to get screwed.
1 reply →
Different middlemen is not a problem because users can decide which ones to use. Not happy with the restriction one imposes? Use a different one.
Either Bob or Alice could set up an app store if this is done right.
Users actively don’t want that. This is how millions of users get malware on their phones.
Then just... don't do it? Nobody is forcing you to install third-party apps.
1 reply →
To go one step beyond, here a simple way to view it that doesn't trigger the usual "it's a one store per app bonanza issue" : would a steam store work and be properly usable ? I use steam because it's one major "app" store (though on desktop) that is very large, not based on specific ethics nor to a specific manufacturer nor OS developper
One problem is that Apple still requires that they notarize each single app on alternative app stores, and reserve the right to refuse apps for security reasons, so a large third-party app store would still be handicapped compared to an independent operation like Steam.
> the usual "it's a one store per app bonanza issue"
What do you mean "usual"? Android had always had app stores without too many restrictions (though for a long time it was complicated to have auto updates) and it's never been a problem.
On which platform did this happen?
> would a steam store work and be properly usable
I think there would be a few different models. Epic, of course, would lead as a gaming store, but I could easily see competition between Epic and Steam for this space. But there could also be other audience-focused stores as well, such as for creative professionals, like we had prior to iPhones. Then there's also suite apps that will maintain their own stores as well.
Just because Apple locked down the entirety of the mobile app world for 20 years, and told us we didn't want alternatives, doesn't mean it won't happen. If anything, it's evidence to the contrary.
Apple priorities are and have always been:
Apple first Users second Developers third
Not only that they still live with ptsd from the times when they almost disappeared, and will do everything in their power to keep as much revenue as they can squeeze.
Because of this, the Japan appstore will be as crappy as the european one. And the apps as surpar as the ones from the appstore.
Because let’s be honest, apps quality have gone downhill
You do bare minimum, get sued, litigate for few years, pay some fines (that are MUCH less than amount of money they made), then do bare minimum again, etc - rinse and repeat.
And one may argue - it's not malicious compliance. It's just how world is setup for big companies. Any other strategy is leaving huge amount of money on the table - that's not what shareholders want. Unless you're willing to have fines that exceed the profits (and not just say about possibility of those, but actually impose and collect them) it's not going to change.
You know Apple is going to do the bare minimum required to avoid lawsuits or government regulation. It will be as miserable is possible. And now Google and Apple will converge at that point.