I purchased my first hybrid, last year: a Toyota Camry. It has helped to completely change both how I drive, and my driving temperament.
My brother has driven Honda hybrids for over a decade (he's owned four identical G1 Insight, designing major electric upgrades); he recently purchased a Toyota Prius, conceding "the drivetrain design of the Toyota is MUCH better".
Just as one example: while in electric mode, the Toyota engine stops, to 0RPM; the Honda engine must always be moving (when the wheels are) — resulting in increased mechanical friction / wear.
Toyota has used the same transmission style (allowing for the above cessation) since the Prius was first introduced, over two decades ago. The "CVT" [planetary gearsets] is rock-solid.
My only complaint with the two Toyotas I've owned has to do with the Emergency Brake: the Camry simply doesn't have one (it has a "parking pawl," which if you lift either of the front wheels up is entirely defeated; god help you if you need to stop moving after a brake failure [you can't]); the Tacoma has a physical parking lever (left of brake pedal), but its push-to-release mechanism isn't exactly re-assuring... if you need emergency braking while moving, the damn thing will lock up your back wheels with no recourse.
Been driving a Honda Civic Hybrid for 19 years. Rock solid. Love it. Agree that Hondas don't go to zero RPM when the wheels are moving. They don't really have a pure electric mode the way Toyota vehicles do.
I traded in a turbocharged Subaru [several 100mph+ citations] that got ~18mpg [the way I drove]. The Camry is only a little bit slower, but the gamification of MPG taught me to "let off the gas pedal." This hybrid drives up 8%-grade mountains with better mileage than the Subaru averaged on flat roads.
Over 1.5 years in the Camry, I've gone from 44 to 50 mpg — a forever-quest to improve efficiency. I now live in the right [slow] lane, invisible to other drivers.
But when I need to accelerate, the electric system delivers.
I had a 2021 Accord Hybrid, and it is not like what you describe. I think it has a different design than older Honda hybrids. It has two electric motor-generators. Below about 40 mph, propulsion is entirely electric. There is a single speed "transmission" and clutch that engages at higher speeds, where the gas motor provides direct drive.
The most surprising thing for me is that Toyota had such a big head start, but their hybrid trucks rather suck, comparing to f150 powerboost.
Abysmal power generation capabilities (I can use my as 7.2kw generator), small batteries. I really wanted Toyota, but they somehow don’t deliver, while ford is pushing hybrid f150 hard.
Maybe, but they also have bets placed that hydrogen fuel cells are the future, which doesn't seem very realistic either. Unrealistic in a different direction.
Toyota has the world’s best reputation for quality and longevity. Their fleet probably has the best total fuel efficiency. (Natural Intelligence is prone to unsubstantiated claims, please check the facts presented here) They have a luxury brand and the most sane option at the low end of the market. I suspect that with the exception of the us market that has been artificially closed to free trade, BYD is going to rival Toyota soon.
> Toyota has the world’s best reputation for quality and longevity. Their fleet probably has the best total fuel efficiency. (Natural Intelligence is prone to unsubstantiated claims, please check the facts presented here) They have a luxury brand and the most sane option at the low end of the market. I suspect that with the exception of the us market that has been artificially closed to free trade, BYD is going to rival Toyota soon.
> Since 2009, Natural Intelligence has built one of the web’s largest and most diversified performance marketing portfolios – creating tailored, data-driven decision journeys that help consumers discover and choose the perfect brands for them.
> Today, as GenAI transforms search experiences, we’re guiding brands to win in the era of AI-powered discovery.
I think the Natural Intelligence is a joke by the OP - they’re saying they’re making unsubstantiated claims, which need to be checked, just like AI’s claims. But they’re not an AI, but a human, an NI.
Opening this link gives me "Access Denied You don't have permission to access "http://www.kbb.com/car-news/toyota-can-barely-cover-the-dema..." on this server.
Reference #18.1c4e1202.1762508326.a0a8eac9
https://errors.edgesuite.net/18.1c4e1202.1762508326.a0a8eac9"
The provided URL also responds with an error. Trying to access from europe.
I purchased my first hybrid, last year: a Toyota Camry. It has helped to completely change both how I drive, and my driving temperament.
My brother has driven Honda hybrids for over a decade (he's owned four identical G1 Insight, designing major electric upgrades); he recently purchased a Toyota Prius, conceding "the drivetrain design of the Toyota is MUCH better".
Just as one example: while in electric mode, the Toyota engine stops, to 0RPM; the Honda engine must always be moving (when the wheels are) — resulting in increased mechanical friction / wear.
Toyota has used the same transmission style (allowing for the above cessation) since the Prius was first introduced, over two decades ago. The "CVT" [planetary gearsets] is rock-solid.
My only complaint with the two Toyotas I've owned has to do with the Emergency Brake: the Camry simply doesn't have one (it has a "parking pawl," which if you lift either of the front wheels up is entirely defeated; god help you if you need to stop moving after a brake failure [you can't]); the Tacoma has a physical parking lever (left of brake pedal), but its push-to-release mechanism isn't exactly re-assuring... if you need emergency braking while moving, the damn thing will lock up your back wheels with no recourse.
Been driving a Honda Civic Hybrid for 19 years. Rock solid. Love it. Agree that Hondas don't go to zero RPM when the wheels are moving. They don't really have a pure electric mode the way Toyota vehicles do.
> helped to completely change both how I drive
Can you expand on this? I find it surprising.
I traded in a turbocharged Subaru [several 100mph+ citations] that got ~18mpg [the way I drove]. The Camry is only a little bit slower, but the gamification of MPG taught me to "let off the gas pedal." This hybrid drives up 8%-grade mountains with better mileage than the Subaru averaged on flat roads.
Over 1.5 years in the Camry, I've gone from 44 to 50 mpg — a forever-quest to improve efficiency. I now live in the right [slow] lane, invisible to other drivers.
But when I need to accelerate, the electric system delivers.
1 reply →
I had a 2021 Accord Hybrid, and it is not like what you describe. I think it has a different design than older Honda hybrids. It has two electric motor-generators. Below about 40 mph, propulsion is entirely electric. There is a single speed "transmission" and clutch that engages at higher speeds, where the gas motor provides direct drive.
The most surprising thing for me is that Toyota had such a big head start, but their hybrid trucks rather suck, comparing to f150 powerboost.
Abysmal power generation capabilities (I can use my as 7.2kw generator), small batteries. I really wanted Toyota, but they somehow don’t deliver, while ford is pushing hybrid f150 hard.
Dads tundra, 2001 300+ thousand miles on same block transmission; still drives like new
Were only Toyota realistic about EV adoption/pushback and the others (excluding the Chinese juggernaut) were overly optimistic?
Maybe, but they also have bets placed that hydrogen fuel cells are the future, which doesn't seem very realistic either. Unrealistic in a different direction.
Toyota has the world’s best reputation for quality and longevity. Their fleet probably has the best total fuel efficiency. (Natural Intelligence is prone to unsubstantiated claims, please check the facts presented here) They have a luxury brand and the most sane option at the low end of the market. I suspect that with the exception of the us market that has been artificially closed to free trade, BYD is going to rival Toyota soon.
Original comment from more_corn:
> Toyota has the world’s best reputation for quality and longevity. Their fleet probably has the best total fuel efficiency. (Natural Intelligence is prone to unsubstantiated claims, please check the facts presented here) They have a luxury brand and the most sane option at the low end of the market. I suspect that with the exception of the us market that has been artificially closed to free trade, BYD is going to rival Toyota soon.
What's Natural Intelligence, I wondered:
> Natural Intelligence | Data-Powered Intent Marketing
> Since 2009, Natural Intelligence has built one of the web’s largest and most diversified performance marketing portfolios – creating tailored, data-driven decision journeys that help consumers discover and choose the perfect brands for them.
> Today, as GenAI transforms search experiences, we’re guiding brands to win in the era of AI-powered discovery.
I think the Natural Intelligence is a joke by the OP - they’re saying they’re making unsubstantiated claims, which need to be checked, just like AI’s claims. But they’re not an AI, but a human, an NI.