That’s funny. I spotted a similar issue in their Go SDK[1] a few years back. I was pretty appalled to see such a basic mistake from a security company, but then again it is Okta.
[1]: https://github.com/okta/okta-sdk-golang/issues/306
We evaluated them a while ago but concluded it was amateur-hour all the way down. They seem to be one of those classic tech companies where 90% of resources go to sales/marketing, and engineering remains "minimum viable" hoping they get an exit before anyone notices.
Among the reasons to leave my last job was a CISO and his minion who insisted spending $50k+ on Okta for their b2b customer and employee authentication was a bulletproof move.
When I brought it up, they said they didn't have anyone smart enough to host an identity solution.
They didn't have anyone smart enough to use Okta either. I had caught multiple dealbreakers-for-me such dubious / conflicting config settings resulting in exposures, actual outages caused by forced upgrades, not to mention their lackluster responses to bona fide incidents over the years.
Okta sucks balls. That's from my perspective as a poor sod who's responsible for some sliver of security at this S&P listed megacorp that makes its purchasing decisions based on golf partners.
Yeah, I have the misfortune of inheriting a SaaS that built on auth0, and the whole stack is rather clownish. But they tick all the regulatory boxes, so we're probably stuck with them (until they suffer a newsworthy breach, at any rate...)
We've recently moved to Auth0. I'm no security expert. Whats the recommended alternative that provides the same features and price, but without the risks suggested here?
okta is the worst. Their support is the worst (we always got someone overseas who only seemed to understand anything, probably they were trained on some corpus) and would take forever to loop in anyone that could actually help.
Anyone that uses Okta should be accepting the fact that they have outsourced a huge chunk of responsibility of their job onto an enterprise company.
These github links are not open source projects, these are public readable software projects. You do not control any of it, you have to deal with internal company politics like "# PRs opened", "# Bugs solved" for the developers' next performance review.
I had a fairly fun time using Auth0 a few years back. The ability to run arbitrary code hooks at various points allowed us to do pretty interesting stuff in a managed way without resorting to writing or self-hosting something that was entirely flexible.
Security and safety is all over their marketing but I have yet to hear anything about them that doesn't indicate either bumbling incompetence or gross negligence.
It's a fair question. I found them way better to implement SSO in my small startup than OneLogin.
Using Auth0 in apps, I find their documentation bafflingly difficult to read. It's not like being thrown in the deep end unexpected to swim. It's like being injected at the bottom of the deep end.God help the poor non-native English speakers on my team who have to slog through it.
Dammit, things like this trigger a very strong rejection of actively adopting AI into my workflows. Not the AI tooling itself, but the absolutely irresponsible ways of using it. This is insane.
Okta requiring to create a video for a pretty obvious vulnerability shows that Okta does not take security seriously, contrary to what they say at their earnings calls. Sounds like deceiving their investors.
I think GitHub should allow disabling PRs. I don't believe most big corporations are interested in dealing with fly-by contributions because it might make them look bad or be riddled with quality issues.
Also some projects like the Linux kernel are just mirrors and would be better off with that functionality disabled.
While that is true, I feel like it is irrelevant here since it seems like Okta definitely wants (and perhaps needs) the fixes. God only knows why GitHub still forces it on though. Early on it might've been some mechanism to encourage people to accept contributions to push the social coding aspect, but at this point I have no idea who this benefits, it mostly confuses people when a project doesn't accept PRs.
> Okta definitely wants (and perhaps needs) the fixes
They definitely don't want them if their process requires signed commits and their solution is 1) open another PR with the authors info then sign it for them, and 2) add AI into the mix because git is too hard I guess?
No matter how you slice it, it doesn't seem like there are Okta employees who want to be taking changes from third parties.
GitHub actually can natively mark a repo as a mirror (or could? I can’t find an example now, but they have always been rare). The book-with-bookmark icon before “user / repo” in the page header is replaced by a mirror-and-reflection-ish–looking thing, and the badge after it changes from “Public” to “Public mirror”. Unfortunately, forcing you into “social coding” (wait, is that no longer on the homepage?) takes priority, so that mark can only be given out by GitHub staff through manual intervention, and it doesn’t often happen.
Sadly many people will spend a million dollars to use Okta for their 10,000 logins/day (read: <1 tps) instead of running their own Keycloak or Authentik or whatever.
OIDC is not scary, and advanced central authorization features (beyond group memberships) are a big ole YAGNI / complexity trap.
Running your own local AuthN/AuthZ is more than just 'install it on a box in the closet'. I don't blame anyone for letting one of the giants do this on their behalf -- they have the expertise, though I agree I wouldn't touch Okta.
The workload to run Authentik locally is about identical to the workload to set up and configure Okta. (Or you could just fine someone who will host Authentik for you, if deploying a container is too hard for you.)
I find it funny that this seemingly fictitious person Simen A. W. Olsen my@simen.io will forever be engraved as a co-author of a one-line change in the nextjs-auth0 repo.
Honestly when I saw Okta in the headline, I had assumed the article was going to say they were breached again.
This one is amusing, and as another comment mentioned below, large companies are awful at accepting patches on github. Most use one-way sync tools to push from their internal repositories to github.
well, it was distasteful of to them to close op's pr and apply the same patch with improper attribution, and then use ai to respond when they were asked about it
I agree with the parent post that it's distasteful.
There's no value in naming the employee. Whatever that employee did, if the company needed to figure out who it was, they can from the commit hashes, etc. But there's no value in the public knowing the employee's name.
Remember that if someone Googles this person for a newer job, it might show up. This is the sort of stuff that can disproportionately harm that person's ability to get a job in the future, even if they made a small mistake (they even apologized for it and was open about what caused it).
So no, it's completely unnecessary and irrelevant to the post.
On the one hand, you're right, it is distasteful, I completely agree. On the other hand, GitHub and Google and the public domain internet isn't everybody's CV that they can pick and choose which of their actions are publicised, tailored towards only their successes.
Yea. I can see what the parent is getting at. However the linked PR's contain the employee name. Their username is the same name mentioned in the article. So it would have been the same even if the author had just mentioned the username instead (which would be completely acceptable in all cases). I think junior employee or not, it's clear that they have the autonomy to check a PR for errors and fix it. So it's very much on them.
I'm currently building on the Auth0 SaaStarter because it seemed to be the only option in the market for something with all the core features enterprises are looking for. Is there an alternative that doesn't require building from scratch?
You're either free OSS that gets flooded with AI slop PRs to overwhelm maintainers or you're a corporate OSS that uses AI slop to frustrate contributors. Are there any positive stories I've not seen?
IANAL but unfortunately, I think the fix itself shown here might be too simple to actually clear the bar for copyright eligibility. (And in fairness to copyright law, it is basically the only sane way to fix this.) That means that there's probably not much you can really do, but I will say this looks fucking pathetic, Okta.
I'm more confused by the fact that the OP freely submits a PR into an open source repo but then wants to use "copyright" because the code he submitted ended up being used under the wrong name, which was then corrected.
Licensing your code under open source licenses does not nullify your rights under copyright law, and the license in this case does not waive any rights to attribution.
It would indeed be copyright violation to improperly attribute code changes. In this case I would absolutely say a force push is warranted, especially since most projects are leaning (potentially improperly) on Git metadata in order to fulfill legal obligations. (This project is MIT-licensed, but this is particularly true of Apache-licensed projects, which have some obligations that are surprising to people today.) A force push is not the end of the world. You can still generally disallow it, but an egregious copyright mistake in recent history is a pretty good justification. That or, literally, revert and re-add the commit with correct attribution. If you really feel this is asking too much, can you please explain why you think it's such a big problem? If it's such a pain, a good rule of thumb would be to not fuck this up regularly enough that it is a major concern when you have to break the glass.
I LOVE LLMs as a learning tool. I HATE LLMs as a communication tool. I know, there are people with serious handicaps who benefit from LLMs in this area. If only I could talk to those people and not wade through all this other garbage.
Especially when the AI is being represented as a person, this to me is dishonest. Not to mention annoying, almost more-so than the number of different apps that think they are important enough to send me push notifications to fill out a survey (don’t even get me started).
LLMs have definitely helped me reduce my social anxiety when writing, especially in a technical work setting. I don’t use it like the respondent in the article though, I would feel really embarassed to not edit an llm’s output to be in my own voice. But I feel it helps provide me with some structure in whatever I’m trying to write when I don’t have the mental energy or wherewithal to provide it myself.
An auth integrator, a pretty notable one, mostly (originally?) OAuth I think. Multiple people calling it a trash fire here came as a surprise to me, but I defer to their experience.
People calling it trash and then recommending microsoft was an even bigger shock to the point where I am not convinced that those aren't microsoft AI bots astroturfing this post.
That’s funny. I spotted a similar issue in their Go SDK[1] a few years back. I was pretty appalled to see such a basic mistake from a security company, but then again it is Okta. [1]: https://github.com/okta/okta-sdk-golang/issues/306
Kind of funny that stalebots are the new "won't fix" methodology to ignore security issues with plausible deniability.
Yeah I got a kick out of that. "We might have fixed your issue, if we didn't, open a new one because we took so long acknowledging this one".
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> I was pretty appalled to see such a basic mistake from a security company, but then again it is Okta.
Oh. Em. Gee.
Is this a common take on Okta? The article and comments suggest...maybe? That is frightening considering how many customers depend on Okta and Auth0.
We evaluated them a while ago but concluded it was amateur-hour all the way down. They seem to be one of those classic tech companies where 90% of resources go to sales/marketing, and engineering remains "minimum viable" hoping they get an exit before anyone notices.
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Among the reasons to leave my last job was a CISO and his minion who insisted spending $50k+ on Okta for their b2b customer and employee authentication was a bulletproof move.
When I brought it up, they said they didn't have anyone smart enough to host an identity solution.
They didn't have anyone smart enough to use Okta either. I had caught multiple dealbreakers-for-me such dubious / conflicting config settings resulting in exposures, actual outages caused by forced upgrades, not to mention their lackluster responses to bona fide incidents over the years.
I use Authentik for SSO in my homelab, fwiw.
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Okta sucks balls. That's from my perspective as a poor sod who's responsible for some sliver of security at this S&P listed megacorp that makes its purchasing decisions based on golf partners.
Yeah, I have the misfortune of inheriting a SaaS that built on auth0, and the whole stack is rather clownish. But they tick all the regulatory boxes, so we're probably stuck with them (until they suffer a newsworthy breach, at any rate...)
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Yep. They're an Enterprise™ company. That means they prioritize features purchasing departments want, not functionality.
1 reply →
We've recently moved to Auth0. I'm no security expert. Whats the recommended alternative that provides the same features and price, but without the risks suggested here?
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okta is the worst. Their support is the worst (we always got someone overseas who only seemed to understand anything, probably they were trained on some corpus) and would take forever to loop in anyone that could actually help.
Yea auth0 is an absolute clown show.
Anyone that uses Okta should be accepting the fact that they have outsourced a huge chunk of responsibility of their job onto an enterprise company.
These github links are not open source projects, these are public readable software projects. You do not control any of it, you have to deal with internal company politics like "# PRs opened", "# Bugs solved" for the developers' next performance review.
Okta is, if you may excuse my French, straight garbage.
And too bad for everyone who was using their former competitor Auth0.
I had a fairly fun time using Auth0 a few years back. The ability to run arbitrary code hooks at various points allowed us to do pretty interesting stuff in a managed way without resorting to writing or self-hosting something that was entirely flexible.
Why if I may ask?
Security and safety is all over their marketing but I have yet to hear anything about them that doesn't indicate either bumbling incompetence or gross negligence.
It's a fair question. I found them way better to implement SSO in my small startup than OneLogin.
Using Auth0 in apps, I find their documentation bafflingly difficult to read. It's not like being thrown in the deep end unexpected to swim. It's like being injected at the bottom of the deep end.God help the poor non-native English speakers on my team who have to slog through it.
AI enabled engineers.
Dammit, things like this trigger a very strong rejection of actively adopting AI into my workflows. Not the AI tooling itself, but the absolutely irresponsible ways of using it. This is insane.
What do you expect? This is the same company suggesting people to turn off DNS Rebind protection to work around their incompetence (https://support.okta.com/help/s/article/dns-rebind-protectio...)
Okta requiring to create a video for a pretty obvious vulnerability shows that Okta does not take security seriously, contrary to what they say at their earnings calls. Sounds like deceiving their investors.
I think GitHub should allow disabling PRs. I don't believe most big corporations are interested in dealing with fly-by contributions because it might make them look bad or be riddled with quality issues.
Also some projects like the Linux kernel are just mirrors and would be better off with that functionality disabled.
While that is true, I feel like it is irrelevant here since it seems like Okta definitely wants (and perhaps needs) the fixes. God only knows why GitHub still forces it on though. Early on it might've been some mechanism to encourage people to accept contributions to push the social coding aspect, but at this point I have no idea who this benefits, it mostly confuses people when a project doesn't accept PRs.
> Okta definitely wants (and perhaps needs) the fixes
They definitely don't want them if their process requires signed commits and their solution is 1) open another PR with the authors info then sign it for them, and 2) add AI into the mix because git is too hard I guess?
No matter how you slice it, it doesn't seem like there are Okta employees who want to be taking changes from third parties.
1 reply →
Social on today's Internet = bots and occasionally trolls
GitHub actually can natively mark a repo as a mirror (or could? I can’t find an example now, but they have always been rare). The book-with-bookmark icon before “user / repo” in the page header is replaced by a mirror-and-reflection-ish–looking thing, and the badge after it changes from “Public” to “Public mirror”. Unfortunately, forcing you into “social coding” (wait, is that no longer on the homepage?) takes priority, so that mark can only be given out by GitHub staff through manual intervention, and it doesn’t often happen.
Maybe the community should use less of github if github doesn't provide features the community finds useful.
You couldn't pay me a billion dollars to use Okta.
Sadly many people will spend a million dollars to use Okta for their 10,000 logins/day (read: <1 tps) instead of running their own Keycloak or Authentik or whatever.
OIDC is not scary, and advanced central authorization features (beyond group memberships) are a big ole YAGNI / complexity trap.
Running your own local AuthN/AuthZ is more than just 'install it on a box in the closet'. I don't blame anyone for letting one of the giants do this on their behalf -- they have the expertise, though I agree I wouldn't touch Okta.
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The workload to run Authentik locally is about identical to the workload to set up and configure Okta. (Or you could just fine someone who will host Authentik for you, if deploying a container is too hard for you.)
You just literally saved me one billion dollars. The offer was incoming!
I find it funny that this seemingly fictitious person Simen A. W. Olsen my@simen.io will forever be engraved as a co-author of a one-line change in the nextjs-auth0 repo.
https://who.is/whois/simen.io
He's not fictitious I think.
Simen Olsen is not fictitious, but the "my@" email/username seems to be. Zero hits on DDG, and only this article comes up in Google Search.
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Honestly when I saw Okta in the headline, I had assumed the article was going to say they were breached again.
This one is amusing, and as another comment mentioned below, large companies are awful at accepting patches on github. Most use one-way sync tools to push from their internal repositories to github.
I think it is distasteful and disrespectful to call out an employee by name in this way, regardless of the merit of the rest of the OP's post.
well, it was distasteful of to them to close op's pr and apply the same patch with improper attribution, and then use ai to respond when they were asked about it
I agree with the parent post that it's distasteful.
There's no value in naming the employee. Whatever that employee did, if the company needed to figure out who it was, they can from the commit hashes, etc. But there's no value in the public knowing the employee's name.
Remember that if someone Googles this person for a newer job, it might show up. This is the sort of stuff that can disproportionately harm that person's ability to get a job in the future, even if they made a small mistake (they even apologized for it and was open about what caused it).
So no, it's completely unnecessary and irrelevant to the post.
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How can it ever be disrespectful to publish truthful information about someone.
What does respect mean and how was it violated by this post?
I think you are far outside the mainstream of journalism norms and ethics and as such should bear the burden of explaining yourself further.
I think you're the one being disrespectful.
(op here)
On the one hand, you're right, it is distasteful, I completely agree. On the other hand, GitHub and Google and the public domain internet isn't everybody's CV that they can pick and choose which of their actions are publicised, tailored towards only their successes.
They maintain a public repo.
Yea. I can see what the parent is getting at. However the linked PR's contain the employee name. Their username is the same name mentioned in the article. So it would have been the same even if the author had just mentioned the username instead (which would be completely acceptable in all cases). I think junior employee or not, it's clear that they have the autonomy to check a PR for errors and fix it. So it's very much on them.
I don't think it is distasteful or disrespectful, he's just explaining what happened and why, and he's obviously unhappy with the whole ordeal.
I've been quite happy with FusionAuth so far. Free to run on your own server, easy to understand and set up, easy to program against, reliable.
We're another happy FusionAuth customer. We started with self-hosted but just moved to their hosted option this year.
I'm currently building on the Auth0 SaaStarter because it seemed to be the only option in the market for something with all the core features enterprises are looking for. Is there an alternative that doesn't require building from scratch?
You're either free OSS that gets flooded with AI slop PRs to overwhelm maintainers or you're a corporate OSS that uses AI slop to frustrate contributors. Are there any positive stories I've not seen?
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45449348
Same author, even!;)
IANAL but unfortunately, I think the fix itself shown here might be too simple to actually clear the bar for copyright eligibility. (And in fairness to copyright law, it is basically the only sane way to fix this.) That means that there's probably not much you can really do, but I will say this looks fucking pathetic, Okta.
I'm more confused by the fact that the OP freely submits a PR into an open source repo but then wants to use "copyright" because the code he submitted ended up being used under the wrong name, which was then corrected.
Licensing your code under open source licenses does not nullify your rights under copyright law, and the license in this case does not waive any rights to attribution.
It would indeed be copyright violation to improperly attribute code changes. In this case I would absolutely say a force push is warranted, especially since most projects are leaning (potentially improperly) on Git metadata in order to fulfill legal obligations. (This project is MIT-licensed, but this is particularly true of Apache-licensed projects, which have some obligations that are surprising to people today.) A force push is not the end of the world. You can still generally disallow it, but an egregious copyright mistake in recent history is a pretty good justification. That or, literally, revert and re-add the commit with correct attribution. If you really feel this is asking too much, can you please explain why you think it's such a big problem? If it's such a pain, a good rule of thumb would be to not fuck this up regularly enough that it is a major concern when you have to break the glass.
Why is it confusing to you to expect attribution?
4 replies →
That maintainer seems clueless
Don't outsource SSO to any IdMaaS. It's too critical. And especially not to Okta.
I LOVE LLMs as a learning tool. I HATE LLMs as a communication tool. I know, there are people with serious handicaps who benefit from LLMs in this area. If only I could talk to those people and not wade through all this other garbage.
Especially when the AI is being represented as a person, this to me is dishonest. Not to mention annoying, almost more-so than the number of different apps that think they are important enough to send me push notifications to fill out a survey (don’t even get me started).
LLMs have definitely helped me reduce my social anxiety when writing, especially in a technical work setting. I don’t use it like the respondent in the article though, I would feel really embarassed to not edit an llm’s output to be in my own voice. But I feel it helps provide me with some structure in whatever I’m trying to write when I don’t have the mental energy or wherewithal to provide it myself.
Is there any non shite managed oAuth solution with a free tier available?
Auth0 really is super easy and comfortable to integrate and I don‘t want to run my own keycloak or whatever.
Authentik?
> Replace Okta
Aren't they cheeky!
Thanks, I will try.
Security companies that prioritize bugs being sold rather than be reported will eventually blow up. Good luck Okta shareholders.
Seems the perfect opportunity to create a AI-generated "hackers" short with some prepared screenshots. /s
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Is this ai generated
More than likely. Look at the users most recent comment with the random “ at the end too.
WTF is Okta?
Basically an enterprise single sign on solution. We use it to allow staff to sign into pretty much any external service using Gsuite credentials.
An auth integrator, a pretty notable one, mostly (originally?) OAuth I think. Multiple people calling it a trash fire here came as a surprise to me, but I defer to their experience.
People calling it trash and then recommending microsoft was an even bigger shock to the point where I am not convinced that those aren't microsoft AI bots astroturfing this post.
Okta was state of the art a decade ago.
FWIW, the employee reply (who the author is putting on blast) seems like it was written by a human, not an AI.
"You're absolutely right!" is the Claude cliche (not a ChatGPT one) - "You are absolutely correct." is not that.
Directly from the employee (tusharpandey13) in the github PR:
> Yeah, i had to manually stop it and delete the ai-generated comment.