Comment by a2tech
2 hours ago
I’m an American and I can safely vouch that myself and most of the people I know deeply believe in the American ideals that have been presented as gospel for decades—fair play, hard work, rule of law, loving our neighbors (regardless of legal status), and to a one, believe that as soon as you swear your oath at the immigration court, you’re an American, regardless of the circumstances of your birth.
The situation we find ourselves in is that the American of today does not represent us well. I have hopes for the future, but time will tell.
> and I can safely vouch that myself and most of the people I know
That's great, too bad none of those people sit in positions of power or anywhere near your government, because from the outside for the last two decades or more, those ideals are not visible to us at all, neither when we look at the foreign policy nor internal.
I'm sure the tides will eventually turn, but we're talking decades more likely than years, since it's been turning this direction for decades already, and I don't see it tipping the balance in the other way even today or the near-future. GLHF at the very least, I do hope things get better for everyone.
Yeah, that is something I don't get. You can hear all around the Internet "we did not vote of this!" yet you don see any visible reaction to all these bad decisions lately - no protests in the streets, no real attempts to block these things, people resigning rather then implementing bad decisions.
I just don't get it - unless all those ideals were just a show from the start.
> no protests in the streets
The No Kings protest was estimated at 7 million people.
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People in the US seems allergic to unions and any sort of solidarity movements, so now you have all these individuals believing them to be the strongest individual, not realizing you need friends and grass-root movements to actually have any sort of civil opposition.
There does seem to be some slight improvements of this situation as of late, video game companies and other obvious sectors getting more unions. But still, even on HN you see lots of FUD about unions, I'm guessing because of the shitty state of police unions and generally the history of unions in the US, but there really isn't any way out of the current situation without solidarity across the entire working class and middle class in the US, even if they're right, left, center or purple.
If only the US would apply those values to their foreign policy, unfortunately the US voters don't care enough about that.
>rule of law, loving our neighbors (regardless of legal status)
>The situation we find ourselves in is that the American of today does not represent us well.
The system can't represent a contradictory set of ideals.
This is exactly the kind of bright eyed idealism that American propaganda produces. I say that as an American who grew up inside the system. The schools shape you into a patriotic silhouette, convinced your country is the shining exception of human history.
Then the internet arrived and cracked the smooth surface. Suddenly the world was not filtered through textbooks and morning announcements. You could see the contradictions, the omissions, the parts of the story no one wanted to say out loud. The myth began to thin out.
And the blindness is intense. Just look at the parent poster. He lists all the noble ideals he and “most people he knows” supposedly embody, as if declaring them makes them true in practice. It becomes a kind of self portrait disguised as a national portrait. The assumption is always that the country has drifted away from the people, never that the people have drifted away from their own claimed principles.
He says that the America of today does not represent him, but never considers that it might represent us all far more than the flattering story we prefer to tell ourselves. The gap is not between the country and its citizens. The gap is between reality and the myths individuals cling to in order to feel morally uncomplicated.
Because once the slogans fall away, nations are not noble and people are not consistent. We are collections of private contradictions, unfinished thoughts, and hidden struggles. We carry more inside than we ever admit.
And in the end, a human is just that. A quiet tangle of secrets pretending the world makes perfect sense.
The fallacy is believing the country has ever perfectly embodied the principals of its people. Unlike your and others dismissive talk of my 'bright eyed idealism' I and the people that I interact with fully understand the missteps and failures of our country.
That does not stop us from working towards making the nation a better place. I'm stubborn and loud and I talk to politicians and others when I see things that I don't think are right. Maybe (probably) I'm tilting at windmills. But I'm not giving up on what I think the United States should be.
As a seventh generation American, war veteran who has been in public service for 22 of my 25 working years and mixed race person, America has literally never organizationally been any of the things you describe.
We are a nation of selfish, narcissists that have no concept of consistent long lasting care based communities.
What little care we give each other is mediated through transactions or cult based social alignment.
Any nation made up of human beings is going to be flawed. The way forward is via incremental change and compromise. Forcing societal change does not, and never has, worked.
The only thing that consistently “works” is the collective scientific process of hypothesis testing
Everything else is fantasy coping mechanisms to maintain in/out group distance so that people feel temporal “safety”