Comment by pverheggen
4 days ago
While it's true that six others unequivocally opposed adoption, we don't know how many of those oppose the chairs claiming they have consensus. This may be a normal ratio to move forward with adoption, you'd have to look at past IETF proceeding to get a sense for that.
One other factor which comes in to play, some people can't stand his communication style. When disagreed with, he tends to dig in his heels and write lengthly responses that question people's motives, like in this blog post and others. Accusing the chairs of corruption may have influenced how seriously his complaint was taken.
> One other factor which comes in to play, some people can't stand his communication style. When disagreed with, he tends to dig in his heels and write lengthly responses that question people's motives, like in this blog post and others.
I don't have context on this other than the linked page, but if what he's saying is accurate, it does seem pretty damning and corrupt, no? Why all the lies and distortions otherwise - how does one assume a generous explanation for lies and distortions?
> I don't have context on this other than the linked page, but if what he's saying is accurate, it does seem pretty damning and corrupt, no?
It's complicated. You'd have to know the rules and read the list archives, and make up your own mind. DJB might be overselling it, so you really do have to check it yourself. I think the WG chair had enough cover to make the call they made. What _I_ would have done is do a WG consensus call on the underlying controversial question once the controversy started, separate from the consensus call on adopting the work item. But I'm not the chair.
To which "underlying controversial question" are you referring?
> Accusing the chairs of corruption may have influenced how seriously his complaint was taken.
If you alter your official treatment of somebody because they suggested you might be corrupt (in other words, because of personal animus), then you have just confirmed their suggestion.
So all someone who is being abusive has to do to force me to be stand there and be abused by them is to call me corrupt?
No, because in this hypothetical you have some authority to discipline that someone. That's what's going on here: DJB is calling out people in the IETF leadership -- people who can dole out posting privileges bans and what not. DJB is most likely going to skirt the line and not go over it, which is what's really tricky here, but the IESG could say they've had enough and discipline him. The trouble is that the underlying controversy does need to be addressed, so the IESG doesn't have completely free hand -- they can end up with a PR problem on their hands.
> So all someone who is being abusive has to do to force me to be stand there and be abused by them is to call me corrupt?
In this example, rectifying concerns is your job, so yes, you have to do it, even if 1 of the 7 parties who hold the concern is a jerk*. Officials can't dispense with rules and procedure just because their feelings are hurt.
If you are actually corrupt**, it isn't abuse. If you aren't, it still isn't abuse. Even if it is abuse, and you deal with it sanctions, you must still rectify the substance of the concerns upheld by 6 other parties.
* 1/7 would be a pretty desirable jerk/total ratio, in my experience
** (and officially behaving differently based on personal animus makes one so)
> One other factor which comes in to play, some people can't stand his communication style. When disagreed with, he tends to dig in his heels and write lengthly responses that question people's motives, like in this blog post and others. Accusing the chairs of corruption may have influenced how seriously his complaint was taken.
The IESG though is completely mishandling it. They could discipline him if need be (posting bans for some amount of time) and still hear the appeal. Instead they're sticking their fingers in their ears. DJB might be childish and annoying, but how are they that much better?