Perhaps the nuance is in the eye of the beholder? I don't think it's sustainable to go about our lives wearing blinders and averting our gaze from the misuse of technology because one might be afraid of unhappy feelings creeping in.
One must not be so cowardly as to deny that materials and technology can be misused or deny that their purpose is of oppression for fear of being attacked by group-thinkers.
"The unexamined life is not worth living" as Socrates put it. So, I invite you not play the usual game of narrowly looking at a single if statement and conclude "there's nothing political in this"; but rather look at the bigger picture... the asymmetry in access to information, resources, weapons, and how that impacts everyone's lives...
If we don't admit that there's a couple dozen people with immeasurable wealth and resources who have questionable intentions and opinions that affect our day-to-day lives, then we won't be able to prevent worse outcomes in a timely manner.
A lot of the uber-nerds are just regular nerds who got lucky, not part of some evil genius cabal. By all means keep an eye on them but I think for the most part they are regular people.
>I'm not a big sucker for this kind of un-nuanced "us vs them" rhetoric
Everyone usually has this
stance by default until they think some batshit crazy redlines have been crossed regardless of what end of the political spectrum they reside in and decide to adopt an "us vs them, hope for peace, prepare for war" approach.
I'm sure you have some "if they actually do <xyz> then I'll adopt a more alarmed stance" line in the sand, it's just drawn at a different point probably. That's why it's best to talk specifics of the case instead of declaring an abstract high-road stance.
You misunderstand my point. I made no remark about whether big tech bosses behave harmfully or not (and in fact I believe that many do). My point is about blaming “nerds” or “Silicon Valley” for power grabs by a few asshole billionaires.
As a nerd running a startup, I dislike the tendency of many journalists to blanket blame “nerds” for the behavior of nutjobs like Musk. It’s pure “us vs them” thinking, blaming the group for the behavior of a few.
The uncomfortable reality is that there does exist an 'us vs them' situation in every other aspect of society today, and those who ignore it end up on the losing side.
hah, had to look this up to make sure this was a real thing. But disagree on which is better, the Nerd Reich has a better ring to it. When you say the other one out loud it sounds like "deferred Reich".
It's cute but are there any actual nerds left in big tech leadership? Of the magnificent seven we basically only have Jensen Huang left as a technical leader and maybe you can count Zuckerberg.
Google has some tendencies - Sundar Pichai was a materials engineer, Brin is back working there who considers himself a computer scientist. Maybe Hassabis - depends how you define it I guess.
When I watch Ex-machina the degree to which I loathed Oscar Isaac's character surprised me. While much of it was because the character was objectively loathsome, part of it was because I felt the type of person he represented was infecting the tech world.
The thing that seemed really inconguous to me was that he actually made the amazing tech. I don't think I have ever encountered a personality like that who actually made things. Certainly I've seen them talking about how great the thing they made is, but invariably, to them, I made means 'my employees made'
Which is not to say that there aren't toxic people who do actually make things. They exist, but it presents somewhat differently to the 'Tech bro' archetype.
It shouldn't matter whether the leaders are actual technical nerds. They are highly focused and motivated individuals who are harnessing tech for the stated purpose. Maybe this is by design and a coordinated movement - or maybe it is the inevitable consequence of uncontrolled and unregulated capitalism.
If profit maximisation is the ultimate goal every smart individual chases, the current trajectory seems inevitable?
One of the reasons I enjoy coming into HN. Is to read comments stating that the guy that created Facebook, alone in his dorm room, could “maybe“ be counted as a tech lead.
Elon Musk must be one. Seems enough techy to me: Tesla, SpaceX, Starlink - software being used for the hardware in innovative ways.
Edit: Oh, wow, mentioning this guy is surely controversial, sorry. However discussing whether he is a nerd, understands engineering on very deep level/gets his hands dirty OR he only manages people - there must be some psychological aspect related, a form of disagreement to discredit or have a hard time believing it can actually be true.
You're replying to a single-sentence comment that both calls out the ridiculousness of this book's argument and its funny title. Clearly I can hold two ideas in my head at once and maybe, just maybe, other people can too.
I struggle to imagine that anyone not already sympathetic to the high school classic "nerds suck" world view is going to suddenly be swayed by this funny book title.
I think it's lost on people outside of the UK - perhaps even to many inside the UK - just how strongly there is a class divide and a ruling elite. The old money is very old indeed
Code absolutely belongs there. Like any technology (be it printing presses, weapons, or algorithms) code is neutral by design, but not by impact.
It can bolster democracies or undermine them. The real agency lies with those who wield it. And it's rarely the coders. It's the leaders, the platforms, the systems that choose how code is deployed.
That's my point. Any tech can (and is) used for this. There's really no point in putting word "code" there. It adds very little additional context. Only in my opinion mostly serves the other goal - to sell.
>And how did they get those capital, for instance the CEO of Meta?
This is the right question.
I'll quote myself here:
1. How come people are able to accumulate so much capital?
2. How come people are able to use the capital to influence life of other people in all ways possible to their liking?
Yes code and capital are both "tools". But you can't just right some code and install cameras at every corner. You need some political influence to do so. And capital buys you this influence.
And to get this capital you should have laws that allow you to do so (tax rates, evasion etc).
And why not code? Are facial recognition models, AI LLMs to spew out spam and addictive social media algorithms not backed by code? The kings and dictators of the past had a lot more capital than Silicon Valley, but could only dream of building such surveillance and propaganda capabilities, as is the case even in a number of tinpot dictatorships in the developing world.
>Are facial recognition models, AI LLMs to spew out spam and addictive social media algorithms not backed by code?
Sure, just like tank is backed by metallurgy and engineers.
>The kings and dictators of the past had a lot more capital than Silicon Valley, but could only dream of building such surveillance and propaganda capabilities.
Soviet union had surveillance and propaganda capabilities you can't even imagine without any of LLM etc.
Surely new tech makes things easier and cheeper, but doesn't change the basic principles.
My point is exactly this: code makes things move faster for everyone, so you can really remove if from the sentence and nothing will change. In adds no meaningful context. It mostly sells.
It is being dismantled by those who claim that the public can't have a say but that we should go to "official sources" (government appointed) or "trusted sources" (their pals) to avoid misinformation. This isn't capitalist driven (the standard Marxist line) because this system limits profits and maximalises government control.
Most of the real democracy dismantling attempts in the world seem more along the lines of the Russians centuries old effort to have everything loyal to the Tzar, including Trump.
Unfettered capitalism is great under certain conditions. Amazing things get invented & rolled out to the world.
When conditions change, cracks appear..
For many reasons we appear to be in an era of slower growth, but shareholders used to growth are still demanding it. That’s sticking business leaders in a really tough place.
The incentives need to change - whether through legislation, or market demands. Until then it’ll be less leg room on flights, more “offers” when you just opened your banking app to pay a bill, and more sanctioned spam in your inbox.
I truly believe plenty of folks are fed up and a backlash is coming that’ll be a mix of legislation and companies emerging that cater to informed customers. I’m optimistic!
> Unfettered capitalism is great under certain conditions. Amazing things get invented & rolled out to the world.
That's a really naive take, for you to enjoy this "ideal capitalism" there are hundred thousands of people who've been seeing and feeling these cracks for decades if not centuries, it's just slowly reaching your neck of the woods
Problem is not with nerds or Silicon Valley, even if Thiel is a lunatic.
Problem are, and always were, obscenely wealthy people destroying the society that created them. In the world where greed is not considered sin anymore, or even a character flaw, they don't even need to pretend anymore.
Crazy to live in a time less moral than the robber baron age. That said, our society made a joke of children making our shoes in miserable conditions, so we have been conditioning ourselves to be ok with this on our own and for a long time.
What's the actual factual accusation here? That monied interests converge on the ruling power? How is this different when the 'opposition' is in control?
As conditions for the middle class continue to deteriorate, isn't it normal that companies that depend on middle class purchasing power try to adjust government buttons and levers to assure their continuation and position in the market?
The 'holier than thou' is showing.
This book appears to be available only for preorder now, not yet published. Nobody here has read it, nobody here can read it, and even if they could, this submission will disappear off the front pages before commenters have a chance to order and read the book. Thus the comments section here is going to be useless (or at least more useless than usual).
I don't know what happened to this website but stuff like this keeps hitting the front page more and more often despite having close to zero value. It feels like SEO spam to me.
Yes, the bad link given here doesn't do the content justice, whatever your opinion would be. It would've been better to link to one of the author's articles on the Nerd Reich website (or something more substantive like his newsletter content). I'm assuming you're talking about the link itself as opposed to the content of the book or topic in general.
"Please don't post insinuations about astroturfing, shilling, brigading, foreign agents, and the like. It degrades discussion and is usually mistaken. If you're worried about abuse, email hn@ycombinator.com and we'll look at the data." https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46068363
Very good question - posted it for awareness / sparking hopefully nuanced “are we the baddies here?” reflection in the community, and curious folks to preorder.
I would assume by default that billionaires are politically active and causing a problem. However this link doesn't give a lot of hints about how or wherefore. I assume this is a jab at Thiel; but it is a bit light on in the synopsis department.
There are a huge number of threats to democracy and the biggest one is probably the total lack of principles and common sense possessed by the median voter. It is a real problem and a bigger one than some billionaire or even the consensus of the billionaires. Sometimes voters and capital come into actual conflict and generally the voters tend to win Pyrrhic victories when that happens.
1. Consider preordering the book if you're already reacting to part of its premise; it should be a juicy read.
2. Regarding the power of billionaires vs the power of the median voter, consider that each lever in a system deserves attention before pulling on it or reconfiguring it. How can one determine "the biggest threat to democracy" without digging into the details?
> the biggest one is probably the total lack of principles and common sense possessed by the median voter.
Hard disagree.
The biggest problem is a misinformed electorate.
An accurate, honest and truthful press is vital for democracy; how else do people know whom to vote for! The fact this is being dismantled (often supplying deliberate misinformation) is truly worrying.
After all, the electorate is entitled to have a lack of principles and no common sense; nobody ever said democracy was perfect. However the electorate needs to be provided with an honest set facts on which they can base their decisions without cries of "fake news". Whatever their political leanings.
I don't know if you will find a time in US history where the press was accurate, honest, and truthful.
I agree with GP that a primary missing feature is a principled public - without principles people swing wildly in opinion depending on the topic and popular rhetoric.
I see this with much of my own family. They mostly consider themselves conservatives and Republicans of the small government and balanced budget era. Those presumed values go out the window though and when a particular political topic of the day comes up they seem to completely contradict it. The most egregious example in my family is a Ron Paul libertarian that somehow still holds those opinions while supporting virtually everything Trump does.
Now it goes beyond money: they are aiming at shaping societies. From mars colonies (imagine musks tantrums when they vote him out) to project 2025 type of political works.
When you have too much money, it's kinda boring to keep making more of them. You want self-expression to the max extent the society will allow you.
So why would it take off there instead of in a larger city with more resources?
I'm not disagreeing with you completely, but I would like to know more about what other factors you would consider to have been more impactful. I don't know that you really need hippies around to get that kind of 'california capitalist' mentality either tbf.
My cousin suddenly has been very captured and obsessed by an area of opinion I didn’t have a name for, fixed money supply, all inflation inherently bad, Elon Musk is badly treated, longer government terms (which sounds reasonable initially until you actually think about just having LESS democracy), no minimum wage. After some research it’s definitely coming from influencers linked to the SV techno feudalists - it’s just such a strong change. But you realise real power is only useful if people can come along with you - if you can build support with the public…
Sounds loosely libertarian, but the longer terms one is new. Its long appealed to technical folks because of its simplicity and ability to address a wide swath of policy issues.
It took me a long time to break myself out of it. I think key was getting into the deep details of passing actual policies that would have enough popular support to be sustainable, to realize its ultimately just naive/simplistic thinking, thats another impractical ideology under the hood, dressed up as something more meaningful.
I know it's fashionable to say that democracy itself leads to these outcomes that destroy democracy. I think Arendt was right about self-colonization and overproduction of elites being the main thing that leads to totalitarianism. There wouldn't even be such a thing as a silicon valley billionaire if the United States wasn't the most wildly successful political entity for the past 2000 years. Power corrupts, but that's distinct from an argument that the systems which created it in this case should be replaced by systems that funnel power in other ways.
It does, by its very nature. Power is not magic, nor is it the Force. It's not a quantity you can stockpile and own - power is leased, it's granted to you by other people. It comes with expectations on how you will wield that power, and usually can be taken away just as quickly as it was granted, if you exercise it in ways they don't approve[0].
Power is obtained through meeting people, gaining their favor, entering deals, providing them services, eventually joining their ranks and advancing to the next level on the ordinal scale. Especially in politics, "power corrupts" by definition; by the time you gain any, you're so thoroughly entangled in mutual deals and friendships with other players you're no longer an autonomous entity - and if you're not willing to do that, you will never be given the opportunity to advance.
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[0] - Yes, there are caveats and strategems one can use to hold on to power - usually by playing people against each other to coerce ongoing support; every history period and every movie with a villain has plenty of examples. It's another discussion; my focus here is on what power is, and where it comes from.
Whenever I heard that expression I have never perceived people to mean "so don't obtain power". More like, "if you do get power be careful". Or "even if he seems like a nice guy, we should maintain a separation of powers".
Like it's more a force than a destiny. Gravity pulls the moon down every day yet it doesn't fall on our heads.
> There wouldn't even be such a thing as a silicon valley billionaire if the United States wasn't the most wildly successful political entity for the past 2000 years.
It's less wildly successful as a political entity than Christianity or Islam.
I'm not talking about the number of impoverished converts or believers. In terms of prosperity and global power, no religion or former empire has come close.
> There wouldn't even be such a thing as a silicon valley billionaire if the United States wasn't the most wildly successful political entity for the past 2000 years.
I don’t know that I would position the USA in this way.
I would not call these people "nerds", many are entitled bros (gals?) with rather rich parents. If you look at many of their family history, their parents are well into the upper middle class, borderline rich. In most cases, they went to the best schools.
It just so happens, tech is were the real money is now. If this was 40+ years ago, they would have ended up on Wall Street or Madison Avenue.
In less than a page, they call it feudalism, fascism, and capital(ism) / corporate rule. Mussolini in his manifesto explicitly defined the 2nd in opposition to the 3rd among other things, and even Marx considered the 1st and the 3rd to be very distinct. Of course the 1st and the 2nd are also quite different.
So which one is it? Oh wait, it's a modern progressive, "calling everything I don't like every bad name I remember from high school history"! Are they also nativist globalists and authoritarian libertarians? I bet they are!
I'm no historian, but has there ever been a society in world history that wasn't dominated by a 'privileged few'?
Weren't the 'rules' of the United States of America written by wealthy white males who excluded women, non-whites, and the non-wealthy (eg non-land owning) from participating in the new nation?
As much as the worldwide turn to fascism worries me, I don't see the lives of most people in the world changing very drastically from any other time in history. Maybe the openness by which the privileged exercise their power is a bit higher on the historical scale, but the lives of the non-privileged, world wide, really don't change much over history. Sure, the invention of fire, electricity, etc benefitted all of mankind, but the distinctions of 'how life is lived' between the privileged and the non-privileged has always been dramatic.
The United States from 1945 to about 1970 made a fair amount of noise about broadening the scope of the franchise. This certainly was not the norm historically, but contemporary ambivalence about that project is what leads us to this article today.
Fascism is a form of ultranationalism based on a myth of national rebirth (“we must purge decadence and be born again”), which seeks to create a new, regimented society through authoritarian power and mass mobilization, often embracing violence.
==
Facism is a very appealing form of organizing society, so no surprise that people would like to have it. The same way many europeans though that facism is an answer to many problems of those times.
But wait, why, beyond shallow demonisation, such seemingly great idea could be considered undesired? Thoughts?
Violence and chaos for anyone with "wrong" ideas, or friends, or genealogy. One man dictating your life choices and options. State control of quite literally everything you do, with the threat of violence and death as their tool.
I think a good comparison would be the word "puritan". At one point puritanism was an existing social movement that mattered, and lead to a lot of upheaval.
But the context in which it existed is gone. So if someone calls someone a puritan now, they don't mean they're trying to rid the Church of England of catholic influences. The reformation is over. It's now a fuzzier kind of "cultural" insult.
I think people are finding hard to let the word "fascist" go. For so long you could use it to immediately put people on the defensive. But much like puritan, the sting is basically all gone. Hard for people to grasp here as I know this place trends older and more left wing, but time marches on.
Funny how points 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 14 and often also 2 and 13 are fundamental for rhetoric of the modern "progressive" left. Thank you for the link. It's the best thing to send to those who are too quick to call their opponents fascists these days.
>The word "fascist" now has positive connotations for me
Spoken like somebody who never had to endure real fascism.
>I realise a lot of you will want to call me fascist for this comment, or more likely something a bit snider and less direct. Just know that I genuinely don't care. It's just a word now.
No, you may not be a fascist, but it's opinions like yours that helped make it possible. Mitläufer.
Anything that is a millimeter to the left in US politics, which happens to still be considered right in the rest of the world, gets immediately coined as left wing activists.
This may have been true in the 80's but it is no longer the case. Left wing politics and whatever nutty ideas this faction produces is now more extreme than its counterpart in Europe. It is as if US lefties have taken the 'everything is bigger in the USA' mantra and applied it to their utopian ideologies. State-run grocery stores? The whole 'DEI/DIE' bureaucra[c/z]y? The aggressive way in which gender ideology is being forced upon those too young to realise they're being bamboozled? Only in the U.S.A...
Right wing activists working with and within government (think taxation, immigration, housing, environment, race, gender) have made a mess of government and society, and are calling anyone who criticizes the current mess as far radical left.
This is stupid and dangerous, but an obvious deflection from the root cause, concervatives who have made quality of life worse prompting an angry reaction that threatens their power.
--
The phrases constructed by your pattern don't bring any clarity, ability to distinguish one from another. It's pure flow of emotion and abstraction which would work only among same-way-thinkers. Good for groups bonding, bad for any communication outside of the group.
You use universally true patterns without even realizing that.
Right wing? In Canada, UK, and many other western nations?
I am not interested in US politics, but if you don't think the current government is not a REACTION to past governments and actions(the summer of love riots of 2020, remember that?), I don't know what to say.
Thiel is probably the most obvious example, being explicitly anti-democracy and pro-authoritarian. Musk is also known for endorsing fringe far-right views and activists. I wouldn't be surprised if there are many more such attitudes in the SV elite, but the rest of them are better at self-regulating.
I think it's both. For sure Curtis Yarvin, Peter Thiel, Elon Musk and others all have some extremely out there beliefs, lots of power, a desire to wield it, and connections to POTUS and the vice president who both seem to be about gaining and wielding as much power as possible.
I haven't read the book but I've read some stuff on a website of the same name, and the way it ties it all together felt very tinfoil hat to me. I think these guys all mutually tolerate each other's insanity in their common lust for ever more power and insatiable egos.
It's just the classic of people with a whole lot of money getting what they want from the government, only boosted by the fact that for the previous decade and a half the left has legitimized political action from corporations since it benefited them, as platforms were largely left-leaning. Now the boot is finally on the other foot and panic ensues.
Can't say I like it, but it has been my position from the very start that this would happen, and as such I'm fresh out of sympathy.
It's at least a little bit amusing that, five or ten years ago, if you opposed big corporate tech allying with government to impose undemocratic political programs, then you were a fascist, while all good thinkers supported that partnership. Only to have that valence switch on a dime when the context changed.
If the Left (and the Right, for that matter) want to make durable political change, they really need coherent theory beyond who's the Bad Guy of the moment.
This is real. Gil Duran is extremely well respected among those of us who are against the fascist takeover of Silicon Valley, which has been well-documented for quite some time.
Not trying to say that you or Gil Duran is wrong, but any anti vaxxer or flat earther can say the same about their "theory" and their well respected writers.
Are you familiar with Curtis Yarvin, and his influence with Thiel, JD Vance etc? He absolutely advocates for monarchy and dismantling democracy. He's also, if we are to judge his extensive writing, very much a racist
Have you read Umberto Eco's essay on Ur-fascism per chance? The dictator bit comes later, if it comes at all. Eco made 14 points that let you detect fascism - the higher the score, the higher the chance of a fascist regime being established.
Well this is exactly what I mean with inflation of the term fascism.
Surely there are lots of things wrong in US society, and surely some of them can be seen as part of a fascist society.
But really this is nothing compared to self declared fascist regimes such as Franco, Mussolini or Hitler.
Yes the current Trump regime is trying to suppress other opinions, sometimes quite openly. But luckily there is still plenty of room in the US to criticize the sitting president.
What do you think would have happened to someone like Seth Meyer under Franco or Hitler?
Do you mean that the things like annulling the elections when the "wrong" candidate won [1] or barring the opposition candidates from running [2],[3] are not the worst excesses?
This exact thought is the human death drive externalized and is responsible for a lot of human misery in the world. Shame on those who unironically believe it.
The excesses of the Weimar Republic did not justify the subsequent events. Not even close.
It’s been 10 years and I have still yet to ear anyone on the far left defining what is a woman without using the very word “woman”.
Meaning: if you think the majority of people will be coerced to normalize this all insanity being pushed by a bunch of mindless Marxists living under the prosperity of capitalism, you will be sorely disappointed.
The USA just elected 2 communists for mayors (they don’t even hide it anymore) but here people are trying to tell us the real issue with present society is fascism.
I’ve seen how that game plays out: and it’s not pretty.
This is far more similar to Communism than Fascism. Their mentality is that they are a scientific vanguard (like Marxism) and that the ends justify the means. They also share the binary thinking of Marxists. They part company with Fascism because most of them are internationalist.
I'm not a big sucker for this kind of un-nuanced "us vs them" rhetoric, but I gotta admit, the title is a stroke of genius.
Perhaps the nuance is in the eye of the beholder? I don't think it's sustainable to go about our lives wearing blinders and averting our gaze from the misuse of technology because one might be afraid of unhappy feelings creeping in.
One must not be so cowardly as to deny that materials and technology can be misused or deny that their purpose is of oppression for fear of being attacked by group-thinkers.
"The unexamined life is not worth living" as Socrates put it. So, I invite you not play the usual game of narrowly looking at a single if statement and conclude "there's nothing political in this"; but rather look at the bigger picture... the asymmetry in access to information, resources, weapons, and how that impacts everyone's lives...
If we don't admit that there's a couple dozen people with immeasurable wealth and resources who have questionable intentions and opinions that affect our day-to-day lives, then we won't be able to prevent worse outcomes in a timely manner.
>deny that their purpose is of oppression...
A lot of the uber-nerds are just regular nerds who got lucky, not part of some evil genius cabal. By all means keep an eye on them but I think for the most part they are regular people.
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>I'm not a big sucker for this kind of un-nuanced "us vs them" rhetoric
Everyone usually has this stance by default until they think some batshit crazy redlines have been crossed regardless of what end of the political spectrum they reside in and decide to adopt an "us vs them, hope for peace, prepare for war" approach.
I'm sure you have some "if they actually do <xyz> then I'll adopt a more alarmed stance" line in the sand, it's just drawn at a different point probably. That's why it's best to talk specifics of the case instead of declaring an abstract high-road stance.
You misunderstand my point. I made no remark about whether big tech bosses behave harmfully or not (and in fact I believe that many do). My point is about blaming “nerds” or “Silicon Valley” for power grabs by a few asshole billionaires.
As a nerd running a startup, I dislike the tendency of many journalists to blanket blame “nerds” for the behavior of nutjobs like Musk. It’s pure “us vs them” thinking, blaming the group for the behavior of a few.
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The uncomfortable reality is that there does exist an 'us vs them' situation in every other aspect of society today, and those who ignore it end up on the losing side.
It's not new. Quoth one of the best lyricists of the past century:
> There is a war between those who say there is a war and the ones who say there isn't
- Leonard Cohen, 1974
A statement so vague and ominous it could have been uttered at any point in human history by persons of any ideology without loss of meaning.
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There is a better one. It was about how the far right was trying to take over Furry Fandom... The title was "the Furred Reich".
hah, had to look this up to make sure this was a real thing. But disagree on which is better, the Nerd Reich has a better ring to it. When you say the other one out loud it sounds like "deferred Reich".
Not really, the "nerds" aren't in control any more. It's just typical assholes, cosplaying as "nerds", ruing everything.
It's cute but are there any actual nerds left in big tech leadership? Of the magnificent seven we basically only have Jensen Huang left as a technical leader and maybe you can count Zuckerberg.
> maybe you can count Zuckerberg
I think that you definitely need to count him. He's always been a massive nerd, his attempts to bulk up and become a MMA competitor notwithstanding.
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Google has some tendencies - Sundar Pichai was a materials engineer, Brin is back working there who considers himself a computer scientist. Maybe Hassabis - depends how you define it I guess.
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When I watch Ex-machina the degree to which I loathed Oscar Isaac's character surprised me. While much of it was because the character was objectively loathsome, part of it was because I felt the type of person he represented was infecting the tech world.
The thing that seemed really inconguous to me was that he actually made the amazing tech. I don't think I have ever encountered a personality like that who actually made things. Certainly I've seen them talking about how great the thing they made is, but invariably, to them, I made means 'my employees made'
Which is not to say that there aren't toxic people who do actually make things. They exist, but it presents somewhat differently to the 'Tech bro' archetype.
It shouldn't matter whether the leaders are actual technical nerds. They are highly focused and motivated individuals who are harnessing tech for the stated purpose. Maybe this is by design and a coordinated movement - or maybe it is the inevitable consequence of uncontrolled and unregulated capitalism.
If profit maximisation is the ultimate goal every smart individual chases, the current trajectory seems inevitable?
Carmack? Also ended up drifting right, but you can't fault his technical credentials.
Wozniak is still alive and seemingly not in the rightwing set, although also too retired to count as "leadership".
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One of the reasons I enjoy coming into HN. Is to read comments stating that the guy that created Facebook, alone in his dorm room, could “maybe“ be counted as a tech lead.
Elon Musk must be one. Seems enough techy to me: Tesla, SpaceX, Starlink - software being used for the hardware in innovative ways.
Edit: Oh, wow, mentioning this guy is surely controversial, sorry. However discussing whether he is a nerd, understands engineering on very deep level/gets his hands dirty OR he only manages people - there must be some psychological aspect related, a form of disagreement to discredit or have a hard time believing it can actually be true.
Here is a list of credible persons commenting on Musk whether he understands engineering or not. With all the sources: https://www.reddit.com/r/SpaceXLounge/comments/k1e0ta/eviden...
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Zuckerberg? The genius coder according to the movie. Programming in PHP.
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Classic example of humour as stop-think
You're replying to a single-sentence comment that both calls out the ridiculousness of this book's argument and its funny title. Clearly I can hold two ideas in my head at once and maybe, just maybe, other people can too.
I struggle to imagine that anyone not already sympathetic to the high school classic "nerds suck" world view is going to suddenly be swayed by this funny book title.
Classic example of motivated reasoning as stop think. Condescend at your own peril.
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> "The Sovereign Individual" by James Dale Davidson and Lord William Rees-Mogg.
Lord William Rees-Mogg being the father of Jacob Rees-Mogg, of Brexit fame.
Interesting how often you meet the same people if you just start digging a little.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Sovereign_Individual : 1997, since I had to check.
> Interesting how often you meet the same people if you just start digging a little.
Endemic problem in UK politics, and a lot of other countries.
I think it's lost on people outside of the UK - perhaps even to many inside the UK - just how strongly there is a class divide and a ruling elite. The old money is very old indeed
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That's how and why they get published. Little names don't get in there. I haven't read the book so can't judge the content.
This is the book that introduced the idea of disaster capitalism - how to profit from other people's misery.
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>democracy is being dismantled not by coups or tanks, but by code, capital, and the illusion of innovation
Not sure "code" belongs here. Even less sure about "illusion".
Take those away and what is left is "dismantled... by capital". Nothing new, really.
Code absolutely belongs there. Like any technology (be it printing presses, weapons, or algorithms) code is neutral by design, but not by impact.
It can bolster democracies or undermine them. The real agency lies with those who wield it. And it's rarely the coders. It's the leaders, the platforms, the systems that choose how code is deployed.
Does open source code count as "capital"? It also has a real and significant effect.
That's my point. Any tech can (and is) used for this. There's really no point in putting word "code" there. It adds very little additional context. Only in my opinion mostly serves the other goal - to sell.
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Have you heard about palantir ? Flock? Prism?
One day you're chasing terrorism, the next you're chasing ecologists, political opponents, unions, minorities, &c.
If we’re being honest, democracy, such as it is, is being dismantled by people. Code, capital, and illusion have no volition.
Code:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Computer_says_no
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Computers_Don%27t_Argue
https://simonwillison.net/2025/Feb/3/a-computer-can-never-be...
It sounds like this book would be a good candidate for your reading list.
It would be great if you have tried to express yourself other than some weird implications.
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The purpose of software is to reduce the cost of change.
Of course “code” belongs here.
I take parent's meaning to be that "code" is redundant in the repetition not blameless.
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And how did they get those capital, for instance the CEO of Meta?
And isn’t social media that prefers rage over information a danger to democracy?
>And how did they get those capital, for instance the CEO of Meta?
This is the right question.
I'll quote myself here:
1. How come people are able to accumulate so much capital?
2. How come people are able to use the capital to influence life of other people in all ways possible to their liking?
Yes code and capital are both "tools". But you can't just right some code and install cameras at every corner. You need some political influence to do so. And capital buys you this influence.
And to get this capital you should have laws that allow you to do so (tax rates, evasion etc).
Same goes for political influence.
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And why not code? Are facial recognition models, AI LLMs to spew out spam and addictive social media algorithms not backed by code? The kings and dictators of the past had a lot more capital than Silicon Valley, but could only dream of building such surveillance and propaganda capabilities, as is the case even in a number of tinpot dictatorships in the developing world.
>Are facial recognition models, AI LLMs to spew out spam and addictive social media algorithms not backed by code?
Sure, just like tank is backed by metallurgy and engineers.
>The kings and dictators of the past had a lot more capital than Silicon Valley, but could only dream of building such surveillance and propaganda capabilities.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cardinal_Richelieu (and not only him most likely) would disagree.
Soviet union had surveillance and propaganda capabilities you can't even imagine without any of LLM etc.
Surely new tech makes things easier and cheeper, but doesn't change the basic principles.
My point is exactly this: code makes things move faster for everyone, so you can really remove if from the sentence and nothing will change. In adds no meaningful context. It mostly sells.
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It is being dismantled by those who claim that the public can't have a say but that we should go to "official sources" (government appointed) or "trusted sources" (their pals) to avoid misinformation. This isn't capitalist driven (the standard Marxist line) because this system limits profits and maximalises government control.
Most of the real democracy dismantling attempts in the world seem more along the lines of the Russians centuries old effort to have everything loyal to the Tzar, including Trump.
There's a youtube interview with the author here https://youtu.be/FWjR6_qYJAw?t=44
A lot seems about Curtis Yarvin and fans thereof.
Unfettered capitalism is great under certain conditions. Amazing things get invented & rolled out to the world.
When conditions change, cracks appear..
For many reasons we appear to be in an era of slower growth, but shareholders used to growth are still demanding it. That’s sticking business leaders in a really tough place.
The incentives need to change - whether through legislation, or market demands. Until then it’ll be less leg room on flights, more “offers” when you just opened your banking app to pay a bill, and more sanctioned spam in your inbox.
I truly believe plenty of folks are fed up and a backlash is coming that’ll be a mix of legislation and companies emerging that cater to informed customers. I’m optimistic!
> Unfettered capitalism is great under certain conditions. Amazing things get invented & rolled out to the world.
That's a really naive take, for you to enjoy this "ideal capitalism" there are hundred thousands of people who've been seeing and feeling these cracks for decades if not centuries, it's just slowly reaching your neck of the woods
Problem is not with nerds or Silicon Valley, even if Thiel is a lunatic. Problem are, and always were, obscenely wealthy people destroying the society that created them. In the world where greed is not considered sin anymore, or even a character flaw, they don't even need to pretend anymore.
Crazy to live in a time less moral than the robber baron age. That said, our society made a joke of children making our shoes in miserable conditions, so we have been conditioning ourselves to be ok with this on our own and for a long time.
What's the actual factual accusation here? That monied interests converge on the ruling power? How is this different when the 'opposition' is in control? As conditions for the middle class continue to deteriorate, isn't it normal that companies that depend on middle class purchasing power try to adjust government buttons and levers to assure their continuation and position in the market? The 'holier than thou' is showing.
Is there a HN convention for links to books?
This book appears to be available only for preorder now, not yet published. Nobody here has read it, nobody here can read it, and even if they could, this submission will disappear off the front pages before commenters have a chance to order and read the book. Thus the comments section here is going to be useless (or at least more useless than usual).
I wanted to disagree then checked the release date. It’s August of 2026. Really early to be discussing this.
Perhaps a link to the author's website and podcast would be more appropriate?
https://www.thenerdreich.com/
I don't know what happened to this website but stuff like this keeps hitting the front page more and more often despite having close to zero value. It feels like SEO spam to me.
Yes, the bad link given here doesn't do the content justice, whatever your opinion would be. It would've been better to link to one of the author's articles on the Nerd Reich website (or something more substantive like his newsletter content). I'm assuming you're talking about the link itself as opposed to the content of the book or topic in general.
"Please don't post insinuations about astroturfing, shilling, brigading, foreign agents, and the like. It degrades discussion and is usually mistaken. If you're worried about abuse, email hn@ycombinator.com and we'll look at the data." https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46068363
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Very good question - posted it for awareness / sparking hopefully nuanced “are we the baddies here?” reflection in the community, and curious folks to preorder.
The comments section here is a phenomenal expository of biases, for the very reason you cite.
I would assume by default that billionaires are politically active and causing a problem. However this link doesn't give a lot of hints about how or wherefore. I assume this is a jab at Thiel; but it is a bit light on in the synopsis department.
There are a huge number of threats to democracy and the biggest one is probably the total lack of principles and common sense possessed by the median voter. It is a real problem and a bigger one than some billionaire or even the consensus of the billionaires. Sometimes voters and capital come into actual conflict and generally the voters tend to win Pyrrhic victories when that happens.
1. Consider preordering the book if you're already reacting to part of its premise; it should be a juicy read.
2. Regarding the power of billionaires vs the power of the median voter, consider that each lever in a system deserves attention before pulling on it or reconfiguring it. How can one determine "the biggest threat to democracy" without digging into the details?
> the biggest one is probably the total lack of principles and common sense possessed by the median voter.
Hard disagree.
The biggest problem is a misinformed electorate.
An accurate, honest and truthful press is vital for democracy; how else do people know whom to vote for! The fact this is being dismantled (often supplying deliberate misinformation) is truly worrying.
After all, the electorate is entitled to have a lack of principles and no common sense; nobody ever said democracy was perfect. However the electorate needs to be provided with an honest set facts on which they can base their decisions without cries of "fake news". Whatever their political leanings.
I don't know if you will find a time in US history where the press was accurate, honest, and truthful.
I agree with GP that a primary missing feature is a principled public - without principles people swing wildly in opinion depending on the topic and popular rhetoric.
I see this with much of my own family. They mostly consider themselves conservatives and Republicans of the small government and balanced budget era. Those presumed values go out the window though and when a particular political topic of the day comes up they seem to completely contradict it. The most egregious example in my family is a Ron Paul libertarian that somehow still holds those opinions while supporting virtually everything Trump does.
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I think it's simpler,money has no Color, no religion.
Silicon valley just happened to reside next to the hippies in the first decades
Now it goes beyond money: they are aiming at shaping societies. From mars colonies (imagine musks tantrums when they vote him out) to project 2025 type of political works.
When you have too much money, it's kinda boring to keep making more of them. You want self-expression to the max extent the society will allow you.
I don't think those pass the sniff test, but grand narratives help to fuel the stocks and invesment bubble
So why would it take off there instead of in a larger city with more resources?
I'm not disagreeing with you completely, but I would like to know more about what other factors you would consider to have been more impactful. I don't know that you really need hippies around to get that kind of 'california capitalist' mentality either tbf.
It won the transistor lottery, then the money oiled the machine.
Recent events prove that there was nothing ideological about it. Once a positive feedback loop is established, it's difficult to break
My cousin suddenly has been very captured and obsessed by an area of opinion I didn’t have a name for, fixed money supply, all inflation inherently bad, Elon Musk is badly treated, longer government terms (which sounds reasonable initially until you actually think about just having LESS democracy), no minimum wage. After some research it’s definitely coming from influencers linked to the SV techno feudalists - it’s just such a strong change. But you realise real power is only useful if people can come along with you - if you can build support with the public…
Sounds loosely libertarian, but the longer terms one is new. Its long appealed to technical folks because of its simplicity and ability to address a wide swath of policy issues.
It took me a long time to break myself out of it. I think key was getting into the deep details of passing actual policies that would have enough popular support to be sustainable, to realize its ultimately just naive/simplistic thinking, thats another impractical ideology under the hood, dressed up as something more meaningful.
I know it's fashionable to say that democracy itself leads to these outcomes that destroy democracy. I think Arendt was right about self-colonization and overproduction of elites being the main thing that leads to totalitarianism. There wouldn't even be such a thing as a silicon valley billionaire if the United States wasn't the most wildly successful political entity for the past 2000 years. Power corrupts, but that's distinct from an argument that the systems which created it in this case should be replaced by systems that funnel power in other ways.
There's some complaints about this book not being out, but Arendt's book has been out since 1963 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eichmann_in_Jerusalem#Banality... and is highly regarded reading on this subject.
> Power corrupts
It doesn't, although they would like you to believe so, so you avoid obtaining it.
But it definitely attracts those corrupted.
It does, by its very nature. Power is not magic, nor is it the Force. It's not a quantity you can stockpile and own - power is leased, it's granted to you by other people. It comes with expectations on how you will wield that power, and usually can be taken away just as quickly as it was granted, if you exercise it in ways they don't approve[0].
Power is obtained through meeting people, gaining their favor, entering deals, providing them services, eventually joining their ranks and advancing to the next level on the ordinal scale. Especially in politics, "power corrupts" by definition; by the time you gain any, you're so thoroughly entangled in mutual deals and friendships with other players you're no longer an autonomous entity - and if you're not willing to do that, you will never be given the opportunity to advance.
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[0] - Yes, there are caveats and strategems one can use to hold on to power - usually by playing people against each other to coerce ongoing support; every history period and every movie with a villain has plenty of examples. It's another discussion; my focus here is on what power is, and where it comes from.
You don't believe that there are people who honored a principle until temptation became to strong? Only people who pursued the temptation?
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Whenever I heard that expression I have never perceived people to mean "so don't obtain power". More like, "if you do get power be careful". Or "even if he seems like a nice guy, we should maintain a separation of powers".
Like it's more a force than a destiny. Gravity pulls the moon down every day yet it doesn't fall on our heads.
> There wouldn't even be such a thing as a silicon valley billionaire if the United States wasn't the most wildly successful political entity for the past 2000 years.
It's less wildly successful as a political entity than Christianity or Islam.
I'm not talking about the number of impoverished converts or believers. In terms of prosperity and global power, no religion or former empire has come close.
> There wouldn't even be such a thing as a silicon valley billionaire if the United States wasn't the most wildly successful political entity for the past 2000 years.
I don’t know that I would position the USA in this way.
Different metrics lead to different “winners”:
Longevity: Imperial China
Institutional legacy: Rome
Global reach: British Empire
Scientific/cultural transmission: Islamic Caliphates
Modern dominance: United States
Another lens:
* Rome & China = stability, governance, internal cohesion.
* Britain & the US = networks, capital markets, technology leverage.
* Caliphates = knowledge platforms, cosmopolitan integration.
Nerds who were bullied at school and weren't picked in gym class style themselves the new SS.
I would not call these people "nerds", many are entitled bros (gals?) with rather rich parents. If you look at many of their family history, their parents are well into the upper middle class, borderline rich. In most cases, they went to the best schools.
It just so happens, tech is were the real money is now. If this was 40+ years ago, they would have ended up on Wall Street or Madison Avenue.
In less than a page, they call it feudalism, fascism, and capital(ism) / corporate rule. Mussolini in his manifesto explicitly defined the 2nd in opposition to the 3rd among other things, and even Marx considered the 1st and the 3rd to be very distinct. Of course the 1st and the 2nd are also quite different.
So which one is it? Oh wait, it's a modern progressive, "calling everything I don't like every bad name I remember from high school history"! Are they also nativist globalists and authoritarian libertarians? I bet they are!
I'm no historian, but has there ever been a society in world history that wasn't dominated by a 'privileged few'?
Weren't the 'rules' of the United States of America written by wealthy white males who excluded women, non-whites, and the non-wealthy (eg non-land owning) from participating in the new nation?
As much as the worldwide turn to fascism worries me, I don't see the lives of most people in the world changing very drastically from any other time in history. Maybe the openness by which the privileged exercise their power is a bit higher on the historical scale, but the lives of the non-privileged, world wide, really don't change much over history. Sure, the invention of fire, electricity, etc benefitted all of mankind, but the distinctions of 'how life is lived' between the privileged and the non-privileged has always been dramatic.
The United States from 1945 to about 1970 made a fair amount of noise about broadening the scope of the franchise. This certainly was not the norm historically, but contemporary ambivalence about that project is what leads us to this article today.
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Fascism is a form of ultranationalism based on a myth of national rebirth (“we must purge decadence and be born again”), which seeks to create a new, regimented society through authoritarian power and mass mobilization, often embracing violence.
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Facism is a very appealing form of organizing society, so no surprise that people would like to have it. The same way many europeans though that facism is an answer to many problems of those times.
But wait, why, beyond shallow demonisation, such seemingly great idea could be considered undesired? Thoughts?
How is fascism even slightly appealing?
Violence and chaos for anyone with "wrong" ideas, or friends, or genealogy. One man dictating your life choices and options. State control of quite literally everything you do, with the threat of violence and death as their tool.
Fuck. That.
I think a good comparison would be the word "puritan". At one point puritanism was an existing social movement that mattered, and lead to a lot of upheaval.
But the context in which it existed is gone. So if someone calls someone a puritan now, they don't mean they're trying to rid the Church of England of catholic influences. The reformation is over. It's now a fuzzier kind of "cultural" insult.
I think people are finding hard to let the word "fascist" go. For so long you could use it to immediately put people on the defensive. But much like puritan, the sting is basically all gone. Hard for people to grasp here as I know this place trends older and more left wing, but time marches on.
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For a more rigorous definition than “things I don’t like”, there’s Umberto Eco’s core characteristics: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ur-Fascism
Funny how points 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 14 and often also 2 and 13 are fundamental for rhetoric of the modern "progressive" left. Thank you for the link. It's the best thing to send to those who are too quick to call their opponents fascists these days.
Fascism is a well defined ideology. RIP to your bizarre comment.
>The word "fascist" now has positive connotations for me
Spoken like somebody who never had to endure real fascism.
>I realise a lot of you will want to call me fascist for this comment, or more likely something a bit snider and less direct. Just know that I genuinely don't care. It's just a word now.
No, you may not be a fascist, but it's opinions like yours that helped make it possible. Mitläufer.
Mitläufer
The English phrase you are looking for would be "fellow traveller".
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Anything that is a millimeter to the left in US politics, which happens to still be considered right in the rest of the world, gets immediately coined as left wing activists.
This may have been true in the 80's but it is no longer the case. Left wing politics and whatever nutty ideas this faction produces is now more extreme than its counterpart in Europe. It is as if US lefties have taken the 'everything is bigger in the USA' mantra and applied it to their utopian ideologies. State-run grocery stores? The whole 'DEI/DIE' bureaucra[c/z]y? The aggressive way in which gender ideology is being forced upon those too young to realise they're being bamboozled? Only in the U.S.A...
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I use the term progressive as a slur for the idiots who think communism is good and capitalism is evil (posted from their iPhones at Starbucks).
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Right wing activists working with and within government (think taxation, immigration, housing, environment, race, gender) have made a mess of government and society, and are calling anyone who criticizes the current mess as far radical left. This is stupid and dangerous, but an obvious deflection from the root cause, concervatives who have made quality of life worse prompting an angry reaction that threatens their power.
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The phrases constructed by your pattern don't bring any clarity, ability to distinguish one from another. It's pure flow of emotion and abstraction which would work only among same-way-thinkers. Good for groups bonding, bad for any communication outside of the group.
You use universally true patterns without even realizing that.
Right wing? In Canada, UK, and many other western nations?
I am not interested in US politics, but if you don't think the current government is not a REACTION to past governments and actions(the summer of love riots of 2020, remember that?), I don't know what to say.
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Thiel is probably the most obvious example, being explicitly anti-democracy and pro-authoritarian. Musk is also known for endorsing fringe far-right views and activists. I wouldn't be surprised if there are many more such attitudes in the SV elite, but the rest of them are better at self-regulating.
Musk was literally campaigning for the German right wing nationalist party.
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I think it's both. For sure Curtis Yarvin, Peter Thiel, Elon Musk and others all have some extremely out there beliefs, lots of power, a desire to wield it, and connections to POTUS and the vice president who both seem to be about gaining and wielding as much power as possible.
I haven't read the book but I've read some stuff on a website of the same name, and the way it ties it all together felt very tinfoil hat to me. I think these guys all mutually tolerate each other's insanity in their common lust for ever more power and insatiable egos.
>I haven't read the book
Has anyone? It's got an August 2026 publication date. Is there even a first draft?
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Look at who was and is consulting the President or paying for his vanity projects, judge for yourself.
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It's just the classic of people with a whole lot of money getting what they want from the government, only boosted by the fact that for the previous decade and a half the left has legitimized political action from corporations since it benefited them, as platforms were largely left-leaning. Now the boot is finally on the other foot and panic ensues.
Can't say I like it, but it has been my position from the very start that this would happen, and as such I'm fresh out of sympathy.
Don't like it? Build your own Silicon Valley.
It's at least a little bit amusing that, five or ten years ago, if you opposed big corporate tech allying with government to impose undemocratic political programs, then you were a fascist, while all good thinkers supported that partnership. Only to have that valence switch on a dime when the context changed.
If the Left (and the Right, for that matter) want to make durable political change, they really need coherent theory beyond who's the Bad Guy of the moment.
LMGTFO:
...singling out ennemies of the Reich... https://www.google.com/search?q=thiel+antichrist
...democracy aiming to be a fair competition of ideas... https://www.google.com/search?q=thiel+competition+is+for+los...
Some starting points for you: Curtis Yarvin, Peter Theil, Elon Musk, Balaji Srinivasan, TESCREAL, The Californian Ideology.
This is real. Gil Duran is extremely well respected among those of us who are against the fascist takeover of Silicon Valley, which has been well-documented for quite some time.
Not trying to say that you or Gil Duran is wrong, but any anti vaxxer or flat earther can say the same about their "theory" and their well respected writers.
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Are you familiar with Curtis Yarvin, and his influence with Thiel, JD Vance etc? He absolutely advocates for monarchy and dismantling democracy. He's also, if we are to judge his extensive writing, very much a racist
https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2022/04/inside-the-new-right...
I'm not saying that none of the Silicon Valley oligarchs have some fascist sympathies. But this book is generalizing over all of Silicon Valley.
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Have you read Umberto Eco's essay on Ur-fascism per chance? The dictator bit comes later, if it comes at all. Eco made 14 points that let you detect fascism - the higher the score, the higher the chance of a fascist regime being established.
It makes for a stunning read https://www.openculture.com/2024/11/umberto-ecos-list-of-the.... Brett Deveraux (historian) once tried to match US society to those 14 points with the expected result: the US matches all 14. He wrote on his blog about it here: https://acoup.blog/2024/10/25/new-acquisitions-1933-and-the-...
Well this is exactly what I mean with inflation of the term fascism. Surely there are lots of things wrong in US society, and surely some of them can be seen as part of a fascist society. But really this is nothing compared to self declared fascist regimes such as Franco, Mussolini or Hitler.
Yes the current Trump regime is trying to suppress other opinions, sometimes quite openly. But luckily there is still plenty of room in the US to criticize the sitting president. What do you think would have happened to someone like Seth Meyer under Franco or Hitler?
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> I see no support per se for a dictatorial leader, or for strong regimentation of society
Everyone who donated to the Trump inauguration knew what they were buying into, and it has definitely delivered troops-on-the-streets fascism.
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It seems nicer than the Woke Reich
Say what you want about "woke" (assuming you can define it), but its worst excesses were curbed by democratic elections.
What's the endgame of a movement that seeks to discredit, overturn, and functionally control elections?
Do you mean that the things like annulling the elections when the "wrong" candidate won [1] or barring the opposition candidates from running [2],[3] are not the worst excesses?
1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2024_Romanian_presidential_ele...
2. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dominique_Strauss-Kahn
3. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marine_Le_Pen
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Enjoy your subjugation!
This exact thought is the human death drive externalized and is responsible for a lot of human misery in the world. Shame on those who unironically believe it.
The excesses of the Weimar Republic did not justify the subsequent events. Not even close.
It's been 10 years, and I have still yet to hear any two people define "woke" the same.
It’s been 10 years and I have still yet to ear anyone on the far left defining what is a woman without using the very word “woman”.
Meaning: if you think the majority of people will be coerced to normalize this all insanity being pushed by a bunch of mindless Marxists living under the prosperity of capitalism, you will be sorely disappointed.
The USA just elected 2 communists for mayors (they don’t even hide it anymore) but here people are trying to tell us the real issue with present society is fascism.
I’ve seen how that game plays out: and it’s not pretty.
This is far more similar to Communism than Fascism. Their mentality is that they are a scientific vanguard (like Marxism) and that the ends justify the means. They also share the binary thinking of Marxists. They part company with Fascism because most of them are internationalist.
MAGA spam bot?
Go read some books first.
As Marx so famously wrote, all the wealth earned by the people should be concentrated into the hands of a few chosen elites.