Comment by nyrikki
9 hours ago
You seem to have a misunderstanding of what namespaces accomplished on plan9, or that it was extending Unix concepts and assembling them in another way.
As someone who actually ran plan9 over 30 years ago I ensure that if you go back and look at it, the namespaces were intended to abstract away the hardware limitations of the time, to build distributed execution contexts of a large assembly of limited resources.
And if you have an issue with Unix sockets you would have hated it as it didn’t even have stalls and everything was about files.
Today we have a different problem, where machines are so large that we have to abstract them into smaller chunks.
Plan9 was exactly the opposite, when your local system CPU is limited you would run the cpu command and use another host, and guess what, it handed your file descriptors to that other machine.
The goals of plan9 are dramatically different than isolation.
But the OSes you seem to hate so much implemented many of the plan9 ideas, like /proc, union file systems, message passing etc.
Also note I am not talking about k8s in the above, I am talking about containers and namespaces.
K8s is an orchestrater, the kernel functionality may be abstracted by it, but K8s is just a user of those plan9 inspired ideas.
Netns, pidns, etc… could be used directly, and you can call unshare(2)[0] directly, or use a cri like crun or use podman.
Heck you could call the ip() command and run your app in an isolated namespace with a single command if you wanted to.
You don’t need an api or K8s at all.
Kubernetes is an operating system on top of an operating system. Its complexity is insane.
The base OS should be providing a lot/all of these features by default.
Plan9 is as you describe out of the box, but what I want is what plan9 might be if it were designed today and could be with a little work. Isolation would not be terribly difficult to add to it. The default namespace a process gets by default could limit it to its own configuration directory, its own data directory, and standard in and out by default. And imagine every instance of that application getting its own distinct copy of that namespace and none of them can talk to each other or scan any disk. They only do work sent to them via stdin, as dictated in the srv configuration for that software.
Everything doesn’t HAVE to be a file, but that is a very elegant abstraction when it all works.
> call the ip() command and run your app in an isolated namespace with a single command if you wanted to.
I should not have to opt in to that. Processes should be isolated by default. Their view of the computer should be heavily restricted; look at all these goofy NPM packages running malware, capturing credentials stored on disk. Why can an NPM package see any of that stuff by default? Why can it see anything else on disk at all? Why is everything wide fucking open all the time?
Why am I the goofy one for wanting isolation?