Comment by harrall
1 day ago
My biggest complaint about some people is that they measure success by the act of doing and rarely by the result.
If I help someone, I am checking if you no longer need help. If I say I’m going to be there at a certain time, I remember every time I’m late. If I do laundry a certain way so I won’t lose a sock, I make sure I haven’t lost a sock. When I do something, my brain replays me “Oh the last time you did this, you made this mistake. Do you want to try it a different way?”
People read how you are “supposed to do things” and feel good when they do it. If you switch to measuring your work by your result, you learn way faster and also get really good at things.
This works if you can connect your actions directly with the outcomes. How would would you assess the efficacy of preventative actions whose consequences are delayed and uncertain?
"I think we should X because it will probably contribute to Y."
What if Z happens? You could say "Doing X was pointless - Z happened anyway!" but then you are discounting at least two things:
1. the possibility that the magnitude of Z would be much higher
2. that it's a numbers game: sometimes you lose despite making the right decision
I don't really understand your examples in the context of decision making - they feel more like execution lapses than strategic choices.
We’re not talking about preventative actions.
Choosing to park my car correctly because I used get tickets is a reactive action. Helping someone because they asked for help is a reactive action. Being late and then doing things to stop being late is also reactive.
I’m not talking about preventing hypothetical consequences for events that could happen but have not even happened.
> Choosing to park my car correctly because I used get tickets is a reactive action.
How do you explain someone who chooses to park correctly and has never received a parking ticket?
1 reply →
You've put into excellent words what I have done my whole life. Intent matters but it isn't sufficient. If you "meant to be on time" but weren't, you failed. Simple as. You don't need to lash yourself about it but too many folk are ready to give themselves a pat on the back for good intentions, or trying but failing, etc.
If you say you're gonna be somewhere, show the fuck up. Anything short is a miss. Failing to account for that makes you an asshole, IMO.
If you’re interested in the subject and want to read more, the concept is commonly called “outcome oriented” vs “process oriented”.
A LOT of workplace conflict arises out of outcome oriented ppl having to work with process oriented people.
I did ceramics for a whole and noticed a common trend.
The creator judges the product compared to their imagining of what they wanted to make. Yhe piece invariably falls short (because our imagination is better than our skillset.)
Everyone else simply looked at the piece objectively. It was either beautiful or not.
I started to look at programs the same way. The criteria for judging my program differs to the criteria for judging other programs.
So for my software I care about architecture, clean code, the language I used, how clever it is.
I judge others by their UI, documentation, support, correctness, intuitiveness etc. I hate when their UI constantly changes. Even small (cosmetic) bugs turn me off.
But my stuff has no docs, the UI is butt ugly, there are some rough edges, but if you avoid the bugs it gives you the right answer (very fast) while consuming less ram, disk, or cpu. And I used new-framework or popular-new-language and runs on any OS etc.
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I personally feel this distinction does not apply at the granularity of people and this difference is unrelated to the issue of people who aren't observant.
I am very process-oriented about drawing. The simple act of drawing is fun and I never have a specific goal. I try different mediums and subjects for fun with no actual purpose, but I still gradually improve because of it. But I never have any idea of what I’m going to draw next.
However I am very outcome-oriented about engineering. I enjoy it but nowhere as much as drawing. If something I built has problems, I keep that in mind for the next system. I pick up new things for the sole purpose of being up to date.
But in either way, I won’t repeat something again that never seems to work. That’s the same whether I’m being process-oriented or outcome-oriented.
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How do you measure results until something is done? It's simply not possible to reliably measure or predict the result of something before it's done, and at best any numbers will be incredibly rough estimates.
The only thing we can control for is the act of doing.
No I mean you measure after.
Some people just don’t seem to measure after though.