Comment by ang_cire
20 hours ago
Tariffs don't do this, though. If you want to do this, you just have to pass laws saying companies are required to manufacture x% of their goods domestically. Putting tariffs in place with no other controls will just see companies shift costs downstream, which is exactly what is happening.
Companies employ economists, lawyers, and legislators, all to ensure they can find workarounds for anything they don't like that's not 100% forced on them by a law (and will even flout the law if the cost/benefit works out).
All evidence is that tariffs have actually tanked jobs, precisely because companies are assuming a defensive fiscal posture in response to what they view as a hostile fiscal policy.
Shifting costs downstream is the point. It imposes a cost on consumers for the externality they are creating by purchasing goods manufactured overseas.
The method you describe is way more easily gamed than a tarrif. What constitutes x% of their goods?
Tarrifs are more proportional to the externality we want to discourage.
It also opens the door to competition. Right now in many things we can't compete against places like e.g. China because everything is dramatically more affordable there, including regulatory compliance. Tariff's change this and make it such that domestic producers can produce things at a cost comparable, and ideally less, than other countries.
These tariffs should have been immediately deployed following changes in labor, environmental, and other laws anyhow - because otherwise all we do is just end up defacto outsourcing pollution and other externalities to the lowest foreign bidder, where the only person who really loses is the American worker.
> Tariff's change this and make it such that domestic producers can produce things at a cost comparable, and ideally less, than other countries.
It’s the opposite. It makes things from other countries more expensive. It doesn’t make things from the US cheaper.
8 replies →
Personally, I think a better alternative to tariffs would be to require make regulatory requirements for labor, environmental concerns, etc. for the production of any goods sold in the US. Or maybe have tariffs, but companies can opt in to complying with regulations in order to avoid the tariffs.
2 replies →
> opens the door to competition. Tariff's change this and make it such that domestic producers can produce things at a cost comparable, and ideally less, than other countries.
Haha, Nope. It's more like closing a door. An actual economist says this:
"If you look at page 1 of the tariff handbook, it says: Don't tariff inputs. It's the simplest way to make it harder—more expensive—for Americans to do business. Any factory around the world can get the steel, copper, and aluminum it needs without paying a 50% upcharge, except an American factory. Think about what that will do to American competitiveness."
https://bsky.app/profile/justinwolfers.bsky.social/post/3lud...
Tariffs are gamed all the time.
They are notorious drivers of corruption, it's one of the reasons they're a disfavored policy. Trump himself visibly engages in it (e.g. Tim Cook giving him a gold statue, Apple tariffs get removed) but corruption will manifest at all levels of the chain.
Tariffs also cost more than the sticker price. Compliance is actually really difficult and expensive especially when everything is made so complex and unpredictable. Enforcement is also expensive and often arbitrary or based on who has or hasn't bribed the right people.
> If you want to do this, you just have to pass laws saying companies are required to manufacture x% of their goods domestically.
and if they go below <x> they pay a fine yea?
yea, thats what a tariff is. you have to manufacture x=100% domestically. otherwise 100-x non-domestic is taxed. that's a tariff.
You're not wrong but the fine can be significantly higher than the tariff.
Pay 300% tax if you don't manufacture 10% of your goods in the US. Furthermore, the penalties could escalate from repeat violations. It's a lot more flexible than a blanket tariff on an industry, country or specific good.
Believing that tariffs shift costs downstream means disregarding the idea of supply and demand. Companies are not altruistic actors they price goods at the maximum the market will bear. If they could just pass costs on to consumers then it means that they are already leaving profits on the table. There are in fact alternatives to the goods we import on which tariffs are imposed. Even if the alternative is buying fewer items and spending money on completely different things.
At the end of the day tariffs are a bit of plaque in the artery of the multi-national corporations and money flowing out of a country. It's challenging to argue all the negatives of tariffs for the US while ignoring that almost every other country has tariffs that benefit their domestic industries.
* Targeted tariffs and blanket tariffs are different beasts.
* In order for capitalism to undercut the tariffs, the tariffs need to be high enough to offset the costs of setting up the local industry and the higher costs of US labor (which, in turn, are pushed higher by blanket tariffs).
* The tariffs also have to be credibly long-term. If you start building and the tariffs are cancelled, you're screwed. The Trump tariffs don't have this credibility - they're toxic enough that they'll be gone as soon as Trump is, even if it's another Republican in the White House in 2028.