> I’ve seen generations grow up. Some grandparents come in with their grandkids and say, “Anna, remember the jukebox?”
> Today, however, young people no longer come to the bar. They came when we had the dance floor and the music. Today, they like to spend time with the smartphone; they even take it to bed when they go to sleep.
What are we losing, what are we taking away from life, now that we ourselves have become a resource to extract. Probably, a lot.
> Today, [young people] like to spend time with the smartphone; they even take it to bed when they go to sleep.
Recently my parents (in their mid-60ies) were visiting us. At some point I realized that both of them had been quietly sitting at our dinner table for over on hour, eyes glued on their smartphones. They are massively addicted. I have noticed that they get nervous as soon as the smartphone is out of reach, or even in silent mode. They mostly talk to friends via Whatsapp and are in constant fear that they miss out on something or that these friends (which also seem to spend most of their days on Whatsapp) will be offended if they don't reply within 5 minutes to the latest Whatsapp trivia. It is quite a struggle to even get them to turn off their phones when we are having dinner. The Whatsapp messages just keep coming in. My wife recently learned that her mother mostly spends her evenings with posting photos of her life on social media, and broke off contact with her brothers for a few days because they failed to quickly and enthusiastically react to some photos she posted on a family Whatsapp group.
But I guess for Anna Possi, my parents are "young people" and could be her grandchildren...
I agree with you, the infection hit quite a lot of older people very hard as well.
That said, the core of the message should not be judgments between the young and the old, but the problem that we have introduced digital fentanyl into our pockets.
When ever in the history of the world were humans not exploited by other humans, in much worse ways than now? I'd rather be google's data source for ads than be someones actual slave for example.
Also I don't really like these luddite sentiments, usually shared between the two extremes, old ladies that never used the internet so they don't understand what they are missing, and IT guys that are too jaded to see the benefits and are at the stage of "wanna become goat farmer". Outside addiction the internet is great.
She's vividly awaken with an active mind at 101 yo, it's not a thing for everyone. We try to fix the body decadence problem with technology while ancient seems already discovered it. You can see it in her words and her lifestyle; a simple life, a helpful work, a community that makes you feel appreciated for what you do. All the rest doesn't really matter for longevity.
Btw, the woman is addressing the interviewer using "her", which is a common form of respect, for a person probably half her age.
many people living simple fulfilling lives die much earlier, it's more an exception than the rule (I don't argue that those things doesn't help, just that they alone is not the reason for long healthy life)
I have a pet theory that classical musicians overindex on longevity, and I believe that the fulfilment and community aspects are contributors to their longevity.
No evidence and probably full of bias but seems intuitive enough
I was thinking about robotic baristas the other day and how you might save on costs but you give up so much; If I’m going out for coffee I prefer places where I know the baristas so I get to feel like a part of my community.
There are a couple stores around me run by small families, and honestly sometimes I feel like I'm halfway to being part of their family when I visit. They recognize me, greet me by name, and start firing up my order right away. Or they ask me how I'm doing and I do the same, but it goes deeper than "good, you?" - I'm learning currently about how one dude is trying a year living together with his ex again. I'm praying for 'em every day pretty much. We share recipes, stores, etc.
We will rue every decision we make to remove humans from interactions imo.
Coffee vending machines? That’s what’s inside the box, it’s nothing new really… There are very high quality ones too. It’s not a particularly skilled job for a human to do, besides the customer service aspect of course, perhaps I am ignorant in that regard.
Indeed, coming from Spain, I don’t really see the lady as a barista, she is the classic bartender that listens to you and knows everybody. Except the bar is open throughout the day, is family friendly, sells all kinds besides alcohol (breakfast, coffee, tobacco, lunch, dinner, newspapers, lottery tickets, snacks and sweets…), and generally acts as the social nexus of the neighborhood. These old school small bars are everywhere in southern EU. Within that context it is less surprising that she would stay working there as long as she physically could.
I am also Spanish, living in Japan, and our bars is one the things I miss the most. Seriously, you don't realize how amazing Spanish bars are until you don't have them.
Here I just stop by a konbini, grab a can coffee and a plastic-wrapped sandwich, and off I go. There is no social nexus, and no neighbourhood for that matter. It's depressing.
I feel like there are definitely two types of people that are after coffee - the morning commute people that need caffeine, and just want it fast. They'd not notice a machine doing it for them (and a lot of them would have a machine at home!)
The other group is like you and I, where we like engaging with the community.
I suppose three - the Starbucks crew that do it for 'likes'.
The Italian morning caffè ritual is already extremely fast: the barista works at the speed of light and the coffee you get is pretty standard, but in exchange you get a moment to rub shoulders "al banco" with others like you about to go into work, or elders just getting out of the house, a mother taking her kid to school, a policeman taking a break. You say hi to the same few people you've been seeing at the establishment for years. It's familiar and heartwarming.
It's a sprinkling of human connection as you start your day. A small homage to the tradition of coffee culture. Your grandparents did it, your parents did it, you did it, your kids will do it, etc. You rejoice in knowing that, as everything else changes around you, maybe this one minuscule secular ritual will stand the test of time and provide a symbolic sense of continuity with the past.
I think group 3 is a bit of a reach. Most people just treat it as a commodity. You need a break after shopping? Coffee. Meeting someone to talk over something for 30 minutes? Coffee. Need a cozy place to sit and get some work done? Coffee. For none of these do people have to engage with the community or be caffeine addicts.
Robotic baristas - I'm assuming the OP is referring to those 6dof robot arm deployments - are largely novelty or luxury items meant to catch attention. You either see them in touristy areas trying to attract the Instagram crowd, or (increasingly now, after the novelty is starting to wear of) in corporate lobbies trying to impress.
I used to feel the same way, but, then I find it weird that the barista has to be there. I get the sense that some people use them almost like a free therapist since they have a captive audience.
It's an interesting sidebar discussion what are cultural norms on social interaction vs using someone like a free therapist. I guess consent to whatever topic, equal airtime, not saying inappropriate things, not slowing down their work.
> I was thinking about robotic baristas the other day and how you might save on costs but you give up so much...
How do they save costs?
Their operating cost doesn't beat gas station coffee, and the margins needed to service them end up pricing them the same as human barista coffee.
Automation only works if it helps reduce your COGS, not increase it, and for a product like coffee with already paper thin margins, the cost of servicing a robotic barista ends up not being much different from hiring 2-3 part time baristas while providing a subpar product.
Working past a 100 is a dream of mine (The barista in the article is 101). I don't think too many people are fond of images of old age in the Western popular zeitgeist - care homes, infirmity, increasing disability.
I hope we can cultivate more 'blue zones' across the Planet, such as in Japan and around the Mediterranean. We have the capability to do so.
Personally, if I could stop working tomorrow I would. I have nothing against work, but I do feel that most jobs aren't particularly meaningful, and so they act as a pacifier that fills in our time so we don't need to confront the question of: what do we do with our time?
She reminds me of the old people managing their crumbling shops in Japan that are popular on youtube. Being still able to work is nice, as long as you are not forced to just to survive.
I always think that I would hate to work into my old age, but it's different for some. I can't speak to what Anna's financial situation is like, but the way she talks about her work as part of the community and a way to stay active and independent makes me think that she's content, and that's great. She certainly seems like she's doing well for 101!
I have an uncle that is extremely old and until a year and a half ago he was still working. But he needed a car for his job and he decided that he's going to get rid of the car before he ends someone else's life and so he had to give up his job too. He's a super nice character, has a great sense of humor and in general is probably one of the most fun and optimistic people that I know. He'd be working still if not for the car and I know that the loss of the job and a chunk of his independence is hard for him. But he does not let it get him down for long, just finds new things to do (he's currently studying bridge like his life depends on it).
For most people, it proves very disorienting to not be doing something constructive for others, and in a capitalist world, where everything easily becomes transactional and people get a little isolated from deeper community and family, it's kind of organic for that drive to be fulfilled by continuing to work in old age. Lots of people do it by choice.
If you feel like you might be on that road, the smart trick is to start thinking early about what kind of work you might want to take up during that stage and plant the seeds for it early.
Some people don't have a lot of choice to prepare, and just end up falling into being barista because the job is there and they find they enjoy it. But the other barista at that same cafe might be the owner who bought it as their own "retirement", filling shifts when they want to, while giving the neighborhood a place to gather.
I can’t imagine I’d ever stop programming as long as I’m mentally and physically capable of it. That doesn’t mean I’d work until I drop, because I can always do hobby projects for myself instead. Being a hobby barista probably doesn’t work quite the same way.
What are we losing, what are we taking away from life, now that we ourselves have become a resource to extract. Probably, a lot.
> Today, [young people] like to spend time with the smartphone; they even take it to bed when they go to sleep.
Recently my parents (in their mid-60ies) were visiting us. At some point I realized that both of them had been quietly sitting at our dinner table for over on hour, eyes glued on their smartphones. They are massively addicted. I have noticed that they get nervous as soon as the smartphone is out of reach, or even in silent mode. They mostly talk to friends via Whatsapp and are in constant fear that they miss out on something or that these friends (which also seem to spend most of their days on Whatsapp) will be offended if they don't reply within 5 minutes to the latest Whatsapp trivia. It is quite a struggle to even get them to turn off their phones when we are having dinner. The Whatsapp messages just keep coming in. My wife recently learned that her mother mostly spends her evenings with posting photos of her life on social media, and broke off contact with her brothers for a few days because they failed to quickly and enthusiastically react to some photos she posted on a family Whatsapp group.
But I guess for Anna Possi, my parents are "young people" and could be her grandchildren...
I agree with you, the infection hit quite a lot of older people very hard as well.
That said, the core of the message should not be judgments between the young and the old, but the problem that we have introduced digital fentanyl into our pockets.
> What are we losing, what are we taking away from life, now that we ourselves have become a resource to extract. Probably, a lot.
Beautifully said. And sad.
Socrates would have drawn the line at writing and reading texts.
When ever in the history of the world were humans not exploited by other humans, in much worse ways than now? I'd rather be google's data source for ads than be someones actual slave for example.
Also I don't really like these luddite sentiments, usually shared between the two extremes, old ladies that never used the internet so they don't understand what they are missing, and IT guys that are too jaded to see the benefits and are at the stage of "wanna become goat farmer". Outside addiction the internet is great.
"Outside addiction the internet is great."
So are painkillers, or alcohol. Still we shouldn't simply shrug our shoulders over their abuse.
We need to find a rational way to treat smartphones. As of now, we are fully in the Gin Craze [0] phase of their use and moderation is badly needed.
[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gin_Craze
Are we the bad guys?
If you have to ask?
She's vividly awaken with an active mind at 101 yo, it's not a thing for everyone. We try to fix the body decadence problem with technology while ancient seems already discovered it. You can see it in her words and her lifestyle; a simple life, a helpful work, a community that makes you feel appreciated for what you do. All the rest doesn't really matter for longevity.
Btw, the woman is addressing the interviewer using "her", which is a common form of respect, for a person probably half her age.
many people living simple fulfilling lives die much earlier, it's more an exception than the rule (I don't argue that those things doesn't help, just that they alone is not the reason for long healthy life)
I have a pet theory that classical musicians overindex on longevity, and I believe that the fulfilment and community aspects are contributors to their longevity.
No evidence and probably full of bias but seems intuitive enough
I was thinking about robotic baristas the other day and how you might save on costs but you give up so much; If I’m going out for coffee I prefer places where I know the baristas so I get to feel like a part of my community.
There are a couple stores around me run by small families, and honestly sometimes I feel like I'm halfway to being part of their family when I visit. They recognize me, greet me by name, and start firing up my order right away. Or they ask me how I'm doing and I do the same, but it goes deeper than "good, you?" - I'm learning currently about how one dude is trying a year living together with his ex again. I'm praying for 'em every day pretty much. We share recipes, stores, etc.
We will rue every decision we make to remove humans from interactions imo.
A local roasters recently opened up a cafe (again, they had one but lost their space some years ago).
Having only been there three times now, each time I've gotten into long conversations about technique and equipment with the baristas.
Is it possible to have a robot pour as good a filter or pull as good a shot? Probably. But I don't go to cafés just for that.
> robotic baristas
Coffee vending machines? That’s what’s inside the box, it’s nothing new really… There are very high quality ones too. It’s not a particularly skilled job for a human to do, besides the customer service aspect of course, perhaps I am ignorant in that regard.
Indeed, coming from Spain, I don’t really see the lady as a barista, she is the classic bartender that listens to you and knows everybody. Except the bar is open throughout the day, is family friendly, sells all kinds besides alcohol (breakfast, coffee, tobacco, lunch, dinner, newspapers, lottery tickets, snacks and sweets…), and generally acts as the social nexus of the neighborhood. These old school small bars are everywhere in southern EU. Within that context it is less surprising that she would stay working there as long as she physically could.
I am also Spanish, living in Japan, and our bars is one the things I miss the most. Seriously, you don't realize how amazing Spanish bars are until you don't have them.
Here I just stop by a konbini, grab a can coffee and a plastic-wrapped sandwich, and off I go. There is no social nexus, and no neighbourhood for that matter. It's depressing.
I feel like there are definitely two types of people that are after coffee - the morning commute people that need caffeine, and just want it fast. They'd not notice a machine doing it for them (and a lot of them would have a machine at home!)
The other group is like you and I, where we like engaging with the community.
I suppose three - the Starbucks crew that do it for 'likes'.
The Italian morning caffè ritual is already extremely fast: the barista works at the speed of light and the coffee you get is pretty standard, but in exchange you get a moment to rub shoulders "al banco" with others like you about to go into work, or elders just getting out of the house, a mother taking her kid to school, a policeman taking a break. You say hi to the same few people you've been seeing at the establishment for years. It's familiar and heartwarming.
It's a sprinkling of human connection as you start your day. A small homage to the tradition of coffee culture. Your grandparents did it, your parents did it, you did it, your kids will do it, etc. You rejoice in knowing that, as everything else changes around you, maybe this one minuscule secular ritual will stand the test of time and provide a symbolic sense of continuity with the past.
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I think group 3 is a bit of a reach. Most people just treat it as a commodity. You need a break after shopping? Coffee. Meeting someone to talk over something for 30 minutes? Coffee. Need a cozy place to sit and get some work done? Coffee. For none of these do people have to engage with the community or be caffeine addicts.
I’m obviously out of touch. What do these starbucks people do exactly.
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Even for morning commute people who need caffeine, getting to chat with a human beats having a machine to do it.
> you might save on costs but you give up so much
Modern society, and the push to optimize every single thing that can be measured, in a nutshell.
Nobody is rolling these out to optimize anything.
Robotic baristas - I'm assuming the OP is referring to those 6dof robot arm deployments - are largely novelty or luxury items meant to catch attention. You either see them in touristy areas trying to attract the Instagram crowd, or (increasingly now, after the novelty is starting to wear of) in corporate lobbies trying to impress.
I used to feel the same way, but, then I find it weird that the barista has to be there. I get the sense that some people use them almost like a free therapist since they have a captive audience.
It's an interesting sidebar discussion what are cultural norms on social interaction vs using someone like a free therapist. I guess consent to whatever topic, equal airtime, not saying inappropriate things, not slowing down their work.
At that point just make your coffee at home.
> I was thinking about robotic baristas the other day and how you might save on costs but you give up so much...
How do they save costs?
Their operating cost doesn't beat gas station coffee, and the margins needed to service them end up pricing them the same as human barista coffee.
Automation only works if it helps reduce your COGS, not increase it, and for a product like coffee with already paper thin margins, the cost of servicing a robotic barista ends up not being much different from hiring 2-3 part time baristas while providing a subpar product.
This is right, coffee is a lot about people and interaction. It's about being around people.
Always love reading interviews with Italy's youth ;)
Great interview with this Australian who's almost a teen ... https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45487077
Thanks for the SensibleChuckle (Bit of Aussie humour there haha)
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Between the lines you can hear the eulogy for a healthy economy and dense social network which have, now, mostly rotted away.
> I tell my granddaughters: work, save, don’t depend on anyone. The world is getting harder.
This woman lived through fascist Italy and everything that came after, and then says this about the way the world is going.
Reading the writing on the wall perhaps.
In Soviet Russia, Rome is a poor city I guess
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Can you imagine the insights on human behaviour that she has had?
Working past a 100 is a dream of mine (The barista in the article is 101). I don't think too many people are fond of images of old age in the Western popular zeitgeist - care homes, infirmity, increasing disability.
I hope we can cultivate more 'blue zones' across the Planet, such as in Japan and around the Mediterranean. We have the capability to do so.
I'm not sold on the whole blue zone thing... here is an HN discussion on a paper refuting some of the claims that won an Ig Nobel prize last year:
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41738434
Personally, if I could stop working tomorrow I would. I have nothing against work, but I do feel that most jobs aren't particularly meaningful, and so they act as a pacifier that fills in our time so we don't need to confront the question of: what do we do with our time?
I’ll never stop working for some definition of work. I will stop doing the things I don’t want to do.
She reminds me of the old people managing their crumbling shops in Japan that are popular on youtube. Being still able to work is nice, as long as you are not forced to just to survive.
https://archive.is/D6o9S
I wonder what happened to the dance floor. It appears at some point, and then apparently it disappears again too, because the youth stop coming.
God damn!
I always think that I would hate to work into my old age, but it's different for some. I can't speak to what Anna's financial situation is like, but the way she talks about her work as part of the community and a way to stay active and independent makes me think that she's content, and that's great. She certainly seems like she's doing well for 101!
Working for a larger soul sucking corporation that long would be spiritually crushing.
But serving your community coffee every day seems like a great way to stay involved in your community doing something useful.
I have an uncle that is extremely old and until a year and a half ago he was still working. But he needed a car for his job and he decided that he's going to get rid of the car before he ends someone else's life and so he had to give up his job too. He's a super nice character, has a great sense of humor and in general is probably one of the most fun and optimistic people that I know. He'd be working still if not for the car and I know that the loss of the job and a chunk of his independence is hard for him. But he does not let it get him down for long, just finds new things to do (he's currently studying bridge like his life depends on it).
For most people, it proves very disorienting to not be doing something constructive for others, and in a capitalist world, where everything easily becomes transactional and people get a little isolated from deeper community and family, it's kind of organic for that drive to be fulfilled by continuing to work in old age. Lots of people do it by choice.
If you feel like you might be on that road, the smart trick is to start thinking early about what kind of work you might want to take up during that stage and plant the seeds for it early.
Some people don't have a lot of choice to prepare, and just end up falling into being barista because the job is there and they find they enjoy it. But the other barista at that same cafe might be the owner who bought it as their own "retirement", filling shifts when they want to, while giving the neighborhood a place to gather.
>and in a capitalist world, where everything easily becomes transactional and people get a little isolated from deeper community and family,
What does this have to do with capitalism?
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I can’t imagine I’d ever stop programming as long as I’m mentally and physically capable of it. That doesn’t mean I’d work until I drop, because I can always do hobby projects for myself instead. Being a hobby barista probably doesn’t work quite the same way.