Comment by tialaramex
15 days ago
The whole point of the logs is that they're tamper-evident. If you think the certificate you've seen wasn't logged you can show proof. If you think the logs tell you something different from everybody else you can prove that too.
It is striking that we don't see that. We reliably see people saying "obviously" the Mossad or the NSA are snooping but they haven't shown any evidence that there's tampering
> We reliably see people saying "obviously" the Mossad or the NSA are snooping but they haven't shown any evidence that there's tampering
Why would they use the one approach that leaves a verifiable trace? That'd be foolish.
- They can intercept everything in the comfort of Cloudflare's datacenters
- They can "politely" ask Cloudflare, AWS, Google cloud, etc. to send them a copy of the private keys for certificates that have already been issued
- They either have a backdoor, or have the capability to add a backdoor in the hardware that generates those keys in the first place, should more convenient forms of access fail.
> Why would they use the one approach that leaves a verifiable trace?
It is NSA practice to avoid targets knowing for sure what happened. However their colleagues at outfits like Russia's GRU have no compunctions about being seen and yet likewise there's no indication they're tampering either.
Although Cloudflare are huge, a lot of transactions you might be interested in don't go through Cloudflare.
> the hardware that generates those keys in the first place
That's literally any general purpose computer. So this ends up as the usual godhood claim, oh, they're omniscient. Woo, ineffable. No action is appropriate.
That's the most naive take I've read online this year.
So your stance is that spy agencies aren't spying on us because if they were, we'd know about it?
6 replies →
> It is striking that we don't see that
It probably just means they are asking the providers to hand over the data, no need to perform active attacks.