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Comment by impossiblefork

4 days ago

No. Generals are always legitimate military targets.

So let me just understand your position here. Suppose the US declares war on Venezuela. Suppose a venezuelan living in America just looks up a bunch of US generals addresses online, and then sets all their houses on fire killing them in their sleep in their McMansions in suburbia.

Are you saying that's a valid military strike, and therefore can't possibly be terrorism? Suppose this person is so successful he kills 1,000 and generals and numerous quit their jobs and move in fear for their life, just to really clarify what you're arguing here.

  • I think it is a valid military strike if a Venezuelan soldier does it on an order. Military targets where a strike are in danger of killing civilians are a hard judgment call. Generally one should never risk targeting civilians. Military law is a complex subject and officers spend quite a lot of time being educated in it. Here is a Swedish defence college course on it. https://www.fhs.se/en/swedish-defence-university/courses/int...

  • > Suppose a venezuelan living in America just looks up a bunch of US generals addresses online, and then sets all their houses on fire killing them in their sleep in their McMansions in suburbia.

    I don't think the analogy is apt. Members of Hezbollah do not occupy a positions of similar relationship to Lebanon as US generals does to the US. As far as I've heard, flag officers and others are escorted by personal security for an attack of any sort, such as the 2009 Ft Hood shooting. [0]

    Moving past that, a civilian citizen of Venezuela in the US who performed actions against US military targets would not be a valid military strike since that person would not be an identifiable member or Venezuela's military. It would more akin to a spy or assassin. Below is an excerpt from an article representing a US-centric view of history [1].

      But the right to kill one’s enemy during war was not considered wholly 
      unregulated. During the 16th century, Balthazar Ayala agreed with Saint 
      Augustine’s contention that it “is indifferent from the standpoint of justice 
      whether trickery be used” in killing the enemy, but then distinguished 
      trickery from “fraud and snares” (The Law and Duties of War and Military 
      Discipline). Similarly, Alberico Gentili, writing in the next century, found 
      treachery “so contrary to the law of God and of Nature, that although I may 
      kill a man, I may not do so by treachery.” He warned that treacherous killing 
      would invite reprisal (Three Books on the Law of War). And Hugo Grotius 
      likewise explained that “a distinction must be made between assassins who 
      violate an express or tacit obligation of good faith, as subjects resorting 
      to violence against a king, vassals against a lord, soldiers against him whom 
      they serve, those also who have been received as suppliants or strangers or 
      deserters, against those who have received them; and such as are held by no 
      bond of good faith” (On the Law of War and Peace).
      

    0. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_Fort_Hood_shooting

    1. https://lieber.westpoint.edu/assassination-law-of-war/

    Edit: /Hamas/Hezbollah/

  • I'm pretty sure even that is allowed, yes.

    Obviously he must wear a uniform while actually conducting the attack though.

  • Are you implying military personnel aren't a legitimate target in a war?

    I'd understand if you were arguing against using excessive force, eg using thermobaric weapons in residential neighborhoods against an individual target, but there hardly exists a more targeted method than the pager attack / arson of specific houses.

  • That would be fine, it's war, and Venzeula would have to deal with the consequences also

The Geneva Convention ought to have something to say about how a general may and may not be attacked.

If I remember correctly, the assailant must be dressed in some sort of military uniform to be considered a prisoner of war if captured. Lacking the uniform, it would be espionage and no Geneva Convention rights.

Obviously, neither side in the conflict is adhering to these rules.

I should give this a read:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geneva_Conventions

  • >The Geneva Convention ought to have something to say about how a general may and may not be attacked.

    Except nobody in power actually gives a damn about the Geneva convention or the "laws of war" being thrown around in this topic.

    Those laws were made up so that victorious powers can bully smaller countries when they lose a war, but superpower nations themselves don't have to abide by them because there's nobody more powerful than them to hold them accountable when they break those rules. Because laws aren't real, it's only the enforcement that is real.

    Like the US also doesn't care about the Geneva Convention with all its warmongering and crimes against humanity in the middle east, and the torturing in Guantanamo Bay, and the likes of George Bush and Tony Blair will never see a day at the ICJ. Hell, not even US marines accused of using civilians for target practices in Afghanistan got to see a day at the Hague because the US said they'd invade the Hague if that happened. Russia also doesn't care about the Geneva convention and Putin won't see a day at the Hague. Israel doesn't give a crap about the geneva convention when bombing Palestinian hospitals, and Netanyahu won't see a day at the Hague. And if China invaded Taiwan, they won't care about the Geneva convention and Xi Jinping will never see the Hague. Trump can invade Venezuela tomorrow, and same, nothing will happen to him or the US.

    THAT IS THE REALITY, that is how the world really works, dominance by the strong, subservience of the weak, everything else about laws, fairness, morality, etc only works in Tolkien tales and internet arguments, not in major international conflicts.

    Edit: to the downvoters, could you also explain what part of what I said was wrong?

    • There are indeed actors who only respect might. That is not universal. Preaching might is right is also not universal.

      It is still important to have might even if you aren't in that camp because inevitably you will run into people with that worldview and they cannot be reasoned with without might.

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