1. Never connect the TV panel itself to the internet. Keep it air-gapped. Treat it solely as a dumb monitor.
2. Use an Apple TV for the "smart" features.
3. Avoid Fire TV, Chromecast, or Roku.
The logic is simple, Google (Chromecast) and Amazon (Fire TV) operate on the same business model as the TV manufacturers subsidized hardware in exchange for user data and ad inventory. Apple is the only mainstream option where the hardware cost covers the experience, rather than your viewing habits subsidizing the device.
My new rule for modern TVs is don't have a TV at all. The social role of having a TV is rapidly dwindling. First off, the number of movies and TV shows that merit even being watched is dwindling. Secondly, even if you find something worth watching, the odds that anybody else will want to watch it is small; everybody has been atomized by recommendation algorithms, everybody gets shown a different set of ads and media, there's no longer and shared culture when it comes to media. It used to be that everybody went home and watched NBC or one of the two other channels, all saw the same ads for the same movies and shows, so if you mentioned one the next day everybody knew what you were talking about. This is no longer true, if you try to bring up some Netflix show you heard of last night, probaby nobody else has heard of it. Now let's say you actually talk somebody into watching something with you despite that... What are the odds that both they and you get through the show or movie without reaching for their phone? Almost zero, in my experience.
It's done. The cultural significance of TV is toast. Our culture is too atomized, too personalized for shared experiences. Large TVs, centerpiece of the living room, are becoming an anachronism that date people as being from a previous era when television was still a shared cultural experience.
I like rewatching old TV shows and films, streamed from my Jellyfin server.
For me, my rule is to get a Google TV, because I can change out the launcher to Flauncher. At least that way I don't see any ads. Google may well still be tracking me, but they do all over the web and I have an Android phone so they've already got plenty of data on me. I just avoid their ads so that it minimises the profitability of that data.
I agree that the days when “everyone” watched the same show are done. But if you can find a small group to watch a show with (better in person), then there are better shows available for that experience these last several years, even if the average quality has gone down.
What are some of your favorite shared experiences to replace tv?
It frustrates me that this is where we have come too.
I refuse to connect any of my TV's to the internet but I have to wonder how long until a few different things happen:
- The TV's just connect to unsecure Wifi and collect the data anyways (I think there were reports of at least one manufacture already doing this at one point?). Or just make a deal with xfinity to use their mesh network that seems to be everywhere.
- The TV's don't work without being connected to the internet.
- The manufactures find out that the cost of adding in a cellular modem is justified by the increase in data they can collect.
I would love the idea of buying a modern TV without any of this crap shoved in, I happily use my Apple TV for everything that isnt video games.
It bothers me though when it seems like to fix an issue with HDR or something I need to update the firmware. I have wondered on occasion if this is intentional to "force" people to connect. If I have to do this I will run an ethernet cable to temporarily connect.
99.999% of TV's are connected directly to the Internet by their users without any restrictions. Investing in additional hardware or operator deals to capture the remaining .001% isn't typically worth it, for now.
For one of our Samsung TVs, we were able to put the update on a thumb drive (we're old, we still have some around) and then use that to install the update on the TV.
It's kind of funny, we bought these TVs because they were "smart" (when they first came out) but they were so clunky and unreliable we disconnected them and used either PS or Apple TV for other things. Now we wouldn't connect our TVs to the internet for anything, and only use PS5s for specific things. We mostly just use our Apple TV.
What do you think of Nvidia Shield? I haven't tried it, but I think it should also belong to 2). It's clearly much more expensive than a FireTV, but as you say it shouldn't be subsidized by ads. As an Android device it should be more open than an Apple TV. While I recognize the near flawless UI and high hardware quality of most Apple devices, I disagree with their "golden cage" or walled garden approach.
I see many people liking their shield, and with good reason it seems, but is it a worthy ecosystem to buy in to when it has not seen a new hardware revision since 2019?
The Shield Pro is perfect for me and I have no reason to upgrade. Have mine downgraded and de-bloated using this guide [0] running a custom launcher. Like you said being Android and more open helps a lot.
I use the non-Pro version for 1080p streaming and have for years. It’s great, does what I want and gets out of the way. Some years ago they were forced by Google to use the standard AndroidTV UI instead of their own custom one, which means it now shows ads on the home screen (a carousel of “watch this on service X”), which are inoffensive enough I haven’t bothered to circumvent them. You can swap to your own custom UI if you want with some ssh futzing.
Chromecast hardware wasn't ever sold at a loss, AFAIK. These things were/are pretty pricey for being long-outdated SoCs equivalent to low range smartphone SoCs and a HDMI driver chip.
I disconnected our living room LG TV from the internet and got a Fire Stick 4K Max, but I hate it; 90% of the screen is advert, and you get a tiny sliver for the 5 apps it lets you see, and you have to go digging for the rest, not to mention the home-screen advertising isn't always appropriate for young children.
I hadn't considered Apple TV because I've never been an Apple user, but perhaps this is what I need.
Though I'm an Android user, all of the Android TV devices seem to be junk or ad-ridden junk.
Is Apple TV the way to go (asking other opinions).
The only other one I'd seriously consider is the nVidia Shield (Pro?). But the risk with that is that it's decade old hardware with no updates in sight. It's more for the "My Plex/Jellyfin server has all the movies and TV shows ever" -crowd :)
Meanwhile my 1st gen 4k AppleTV (6-ish years old?) is chugging away perfectly and runs every single 3rd party streaming platform I need - even the local ones. As a market it's just too big to ignore.
And no ads anywhere on the front page. The top row apps get to show their stuff on the top part, but it's not "ads" in my book - unlike Google TV that just shoves full-screen crap of "YOU WANNA SEE THIS MARVEL MOVIE?!" at you no matter where you browse.
I've been using an AppleTV as the primary way to get content to my (dumb, vintage 2007) TV for approximately a decade now.
While my usage has increasingly shifted toward drawing from my personal library through first Plex, then Jellyfin, I've also used Netflix, YouTube, Twitch, Amazon Prime Video, AppleTV+, and probably a couple of other content apps I'm forgetting on it. Aside from some issues with the UI of individual apps (which is, of course, on the developers), it all works great. Many of the apps can even show you a couple of tiles of "suggested content" right from the home screen (for instance, when I select the Netflix app, but before I launch it, it currently shows the next episodes from the most recent two shows I've been watching on it).
There are various ways in which an AppleTV can be better if you're already in the Apple ecosystem (which I am), but you absolutely do not need to be to make excellent use of it.
It can even join your Tailscale network and act as an exit node, giving you a quick & dirty VPN into your home network!
Happy apple tv user for > 5 years now. It has icons for the apps you want to start on the home screen. You click the icons. The apps start.
It's connected to a samsung tv that's not allowed wifi access. Besides the bad and steadily worsening UX of streaming apps like Netflix, my setup itself never shows me any ads.
Also the apple tv remote has a very solid, premium feel, which i like
I just hook up a (linux) laptop to my TV, personally. I have a mouse (and a bluetooth keyboard which I rarely use) to interface.
I have no idea if that would in some way impact something like streaming quality because I don't have any streaming services; I live in australia where the streaming companies simply don't bother organising streaming rights for worthwhile media. I also like to own things I want to rewatch.
If I wanted to get fancy (and if I had a TV capable of connecting to the internet, which I don't) I might consider setting it up as a media server or look at NAS solutions, but my laptop is perfect for me as is.
Before you buy an Apple TV you can try installing ProjectIvy launcher and see if that suits your needs. It's basically a simplified launcher UI for Android TV devices.
It's not perfect, not if it suits your needs you won't have to buy another device.
A cheap used mini desktop with a linux install on it is also a good way to go. Throw in a wireless mouse and keyboard and you can do not only what an AppleTV or Android box does but also everything a cheap used mini pc can do.
Would be a media powerhouse compared to almost any set top box you can buy.
Throw OpenElec or OSMC on it for simple media setup or Bazzite or Ubuntu for a normal linux desktop with downloadable applications for most streaming platforms.
What's wrong with Roku? They have a few ads here and there but I've always found the interface to be super slick. And they aren't Google, so not as harmful to share my data with? (a big assumption, I know)
I wouldn't assume Roku is better to share your data with. Google uses your data to feed their own algorithms instead of just straight up selling it. Their incentive is to keep the data internal so they alone can extract value from it.
This works until eARC breaks and you have to update (LG C6, never connected to the internet, only using AppleTV). And then of course the next LG update will break eARC again.
I’ve thought about doing this, what kind of device do you use for input?
I have a Logitech K400 Plus portable keyboard and it works great for general use, but I end up using my Apple TV on the couch instead since I prefer using a TV remote / gamepad to navigate.
> 1. Never connect the TV panel itself to the internet. Keep it air-gapped. Treat it solely as a dumb monitor.
A sensible rule, indeed. Next level of dystopia: cellular modems becoming so cheap that every TV, fridge and washing machine comes with one that connects it to the Internet whether you like it or not. And then when we Faraday cage those, the device refuses to function.
Laws need to keep up and ban this shit outright. It sounds exactly like something that the EU could help with.
The EU actually mandated that cars have a modem ("eCall"), so they could self-report accidents. I think this has been under reported even in tech circles.
> Next level of dystopia: cellular modems becoming so cheap that every TV, fridge and washing machine comes with one that connects it to the Internet whether you like it or not.
Surely if Copilot was so useful and great, it wouldn't be free and they wouldn't be trying to force it down unwilling people's throats at every opportunity.
I'm beginning to think this AI stuff isn't all it's cracked up to be...
That's not even the endgoal they are aiming at. Suppose you have a data churning loop you want to run forever. First step is to send a copy everywhere (anywhere) and in whatever shape and form to feast. Otherwise it just sits there looking at the nuclear plant next door.
I've been a heavy user of the MS Copilot chat app on my Android phone, which I've been pretty happy with as a free basic AI chat option except for some annoying GUI bugs that they will apparently never get around to fixing. But I've yet to see a good use outside of the chat interface.
Click ‘Install’ on Plasma Bigscreen page -> oops, here's a notice that you can't use it. What's the point? Why not at least suggest instructions for a dev/testing/at-your-own-risk build?
They need to force induce AI demand to pump up the dashboards for shareholders. Thus they are converting every possible input line in the world into AI inputs. Do you think they redesigned Windows Run dialog[1] out of the blue just for fun?
For similar reasons many years back when I broke the bank for a G2, I decided to disconnect it forever. Besides the always-on spyware, every update broke something, which is incredibly frustrating considering the amount I spent. For instance, I got a GX soundbar for free with the TV which worked fine for 1–2 months until some update borked it and made it glitch out randomly. To date, none of their updates seem to have fixed it. I now only connect it back to the web — if needed — once a year or so but even this needs plenty of careful research across the web to see if the update package breaks something else I take for granted.
Hooking up an Apple TV 4K to this thing was the best decision I ever made and the sheer performance of this thing puts every TV vendor to shame. I would recommend everyone to do the same if they're already in the Apple ecosystem.
I agree ive hooked up apple tv to override the crappy subsidized smart tv built ins that spy on you. That works until apple changes leadership and new leadership starts significantly mining data and caring less about privacy. It will happen at some point, not on Cooks term but someone else im sure of it.
While I've left my now fairly old TV on the internet, I use optical (TOSLINK) out to a cheap class D amplifier, which seems to have been a more reliable system than any of the HDMI audio based ones.
Maybe related: I bought an LG TV in 2014 or so, I was interested in what its calls home communicated, so I MItM'ed it to capture the http (no s!) traffic. I never did bother to analyze the requests and responses..
But I got a newer LG model 2 years ago, I was still redirecting requests to LG's servers to a local web server (using DNS), but I guess due to https, the certificate checks failed and the attempts to call home failed. This meant that I never got asked to agree to the T&As.
I am currently using one that is prevented from connecting to the internet via firewall rules from my router and all media comes from a separate jellyfin server. Had to allow enough of an internet access to install the app but once that was done, everything going outside lan is blocked.
Also most tvs have usb ports so maybe either raw media or some third part dongle can service as well?
Also also, most tvs of this caliber have hdmi you can plug your computer to.
Yes. I just got a new LG C3 OLED. I skipped the guided setup, then disabled any “smart” video manipulations. I connected it to an Apple TV, made sure the ATV’s remote worked, and Velcroed the LG remote to the back of the TV. The TV works great and hasn’t yet nagged me for internet access.
Makes me more and more glad that I never let my TV on any network and only use it as a display for Apple TV, the Blu-Ray player, and playing media from USB drives...
My LG TV has been offline for the past 2 years (since I got it). I'm so much happier using the Apple TV.
I know people want "dumb" displays, but the reality is that these OLED panels offer industry-leading image quality and benefit from economies of scale, where most users want some form of built-in OS. A signage board cannot compete on price or quality. As long as TV manufacturers let me run it offline without issue, I'm fine with that.
Also fwiw, you can use apps like Infuse on the Apple TV for playing your own media files over the network. No Need for USB drives, just connect direct to the shared folder.
> As long as TV manufacturers let me run it offline without issue, I'm fine with that.
I suspect that this won't be the case for much longer. Once you've stuffed the TV with all the ads and data harvesting you can, the logical next step is to ensure it doesn't work at all unless those ads are being watched and that data is being harvested.
Then it is Apple that is harvesting your data. They may or may not display ads (I don't have an AppleTV to check), but they are certainly logging your interactions and possibly selling that data with third parties. That is on top of all the data Apple already has on people using iPhones, and the reason why I will never use anything other than a free/libre ROM like Graphene or Lineage.
> but the reality is that these OLED panels offer industry-leading image quality
Except in scenes with fire (like a campfire) or where some spots may have high brightness compared to the surroundings. The LG OLED TVs I’ve seen all go blank in such scenes. The TVs I’ve seen that have LCD panels don’t have this issue. It seems like the only way to disable it (after turning off power saving and a few other things) is to buy and use a service remote to turn off ASBL. From my online reading, it seems like doing this may void the warranty and probably have negative effects on the life of the panel.
I will point out, there are sometimes some really legitimate firmware updates that actually enhance or correct shortcomings on the TVs, especially for cinephiles on high-end units and for recently-released models that have firmware that needs work.
You can find people who cover the content of these updates, such as Vincent from HDTVtest.
What I tend to do is leave my WiFi off and then occasionally turn it on and connect for firmware updates, then disable it afterward.
I've also found that on my LG OLED that a lot of the crapware doesn't even have an option to function if you just never accept the terms and conditions or un-accept them. The UI doesn't make it perfectly obvious that you can do this but you absolutely can.
This stuff is very much anti-consumer, but can generally be mitigated by vigilant settings-chasing and a willingness to ignore the TV interface and use a dedicated streaming box with essentially no ads like an Apple TV.
I left a relative house sitting, specifically told them to use the Xbox if they need Netflix etc, and of course they connected the TV to the wifi and just hit accept on everything. Luckily it was still new enough that LG hadn’t put out a patch to cram it full of ads yet.
After that I blocked the MAC address at my router.
> Makes me more and more glad that I never let my TV on any network..
Sigh! These manufacturers have repeated this so many times that it is probably in their corporate subversion manual now. This is no consolation at all. They first introduce 'optional' features like this. Then they tighten the screw such that you get degraded performance if you don't use that feature. Finally they make it unavoidable. How are we missing it every time?
Haven't we seen how this evolved in the case of windows login using their 365 account? Haven't we seen how Android smartphone unlocking and custom ROM flashing got gradually more difficult over the years until we can't do that anymore?
If you rely on compromises or shortcuts out of this problem, you'll eventually find yourself without any. We need to nip this trend in the bud. Punish them with a tanked market.
> Additionally, LG has a setting called "Live Plus" that Reddit users highlighted. When it's turned on, the TV can recognize what's displayed on screen and use that viewing information for personalized recommendations and ads. LG describes it as an "enhanced viewing experience,"
Ah. So it's not "AI." It's an "opportunity to spy on every single thing you do."
Every AI company is doing the same thing, there is nothing special about Microsoft in this instance. If you're using a 3rd party provider for your queries you can assume it is going to end up in the training corpus.
Old Microsoft learned from the Clippy debacle, and more recently from the Windows 8.1 modern UI debacle.
I'm not sure new Microsoft will learn this time...
There have been reports of TVs with wi-fi managing to find an open network nearby and using that to get access to its updates and to send its telemetry. Having to physically hack a TV to disable its wi-fi is just..
At this point maybe a monitor is actucally the better choice even if the cost is high.
Doubt it, 99% of consumers will connect it to the internet. The remaining 1% will be blocking ads everywhere making the data rather useless and potentially poisoned.
I've had an LG tv for a couple years. I was previously able to use LG's THINQ app on my phone like a remote to operate the tv. A couple days ago I went in the app to use the remote and the feature had been totally locked behind the "access local networks & devices" permission... This permission was never needed in the past 3 years yet now it's necessary for the same functionality.
So, I disconnected the TV from the internet, uninstalled the app, and bought an Apple TV 3rd gen. LG TV quality is great but their software is unbearable.
Wouldn't it make sense for a remote control to need to access local network & devices? Like, without this permission, the only way the controller would work is through a cloud service, so I would personally be pretty happy to discover the app requests this permission, as it would likely mean the app will keep working when LG inevitably shuts down their cloud server...
Look up signage displays. Only problem with them is that they may be overly industrial and missing things that consumers would want, like Dolby Vision.
It's a positive for a nameless middle manager somewhere who can show their boss a graph with a line moving to the right and up with a title like "AI Adoption Across Platforms" and hit their bonus target.
also: i think this sort of behaviour is exactly how you chill updates of any sort. it may take a while but when it is publicly salient that updates are sophies choice, and large pie slices of devices stay stock and unconnected, that will dry up that watering hole.
paranoia regarding un-updated devices will give way to paranoia regarding updates being used to screw you into something you would never consent to.
As a reminder if you own an LG TV, turn off the sneakily named "Live Plus" thing. This "option" makes your LG TV spy on you, tracking and reporting what you watch based on the image that is shown on the TV.
You need to go to Settings -> All Settings -> General -> System -> Additional Settings to make sure the "Live Plus" option is OFF.
Check it periodically, as it sometimes turns itself back on again after updates.
The enshittification of our world is beyond words.
What a shame, they run webOS is which is really interesting on these, though LG continues to implement the most anti consumer things they can think of.
Is it always listening? If not now, can it be changed to always be listening by a remote update? Can that update be selectively sent to certain users? Who controls which users?
I have an LG TV purchased about 3 years ago. It had a bunch of "AI" features from day one, but mostly related to improving the picture quality dynamically based on what's on the screen. I disabled all of that stuff, so I guess I'll be disabling this too.
The LG software is horrible on this TV. Great picture quality, but I would never recommend an LG TV just because of the software.
I have an OLED from them that’s 5 years old or so now, I have never once updated it or used any of the software beyond switching inputs and screen/color settings. It’s sad if it sounds like it’s getting to the point where you can’t just use a screen as a dumb screen as an option, I never minded smart features… as long as I never had to use them.
I recently bought a $250 Zojurishi rice cooker because I wanted quality, durability and no "trade offs" I am going to start buying more and more Japanese electronics if US and South Korean companies keep colluding with each other in inserting garbage.
Samsung is already preloading intelligence service software and "365 copilot" into their phones to trick old people into paying for a subscription to open a PDF (it sets itself as a default app).
At this point it's a war against the consumer.
And it's not just this, they are slowly phasing out consumer hardware (GPU price increase, RAM, non NVME SSDs, etc.) in an effort to make hardware ownership impossible thus creating a "Market" for the post bubble burst of AI where they will be renting out PC hardware (all these datacenters that they are building which will be useless).
This is US led and also conveniently both the US and South Korea are involved, as they shut down China (both GPUs and RAM manufacturers in China were blacklisted).
It's not a coincidence, I Imagine the threats of potential tariffs if they do not comply does not help with their "independent thinking".
Huge shame. I have an LG running WebOS that I bought in 2012 and is still going strong and receiving updates (well, it received one last year, but not this one).
I was always impressed with how unshittified it was, and knew that when I got another TV it would be a WebOS LG.
Thankfully I've yet to see a 'smart projector.' Highly recommend as a replacement for a standard TV; much bigger screen size, more portable, more 'cinema feel,' plus it can't connect to WiFi even if you wanted it to.
LG and BENQ has quite some smart ones. They have a custom OS called WebOS. Actually you can only get non-smart ones only if you buy commercial projectors.
I think generally as you move up in quality/performance the app stuff drops away. Epson for example has a bunch of sub-$1500 "streaming" projectors, but as you move up into the more purpose-built "home theater" models that quickly disappears in favor of things like higher contrast levels and motorized lens/shift memory.
Why? If they want to even embed copilot, they could have atleast been strategic about it!! Copilot has this image that has something to do with coding, average person doesn’t care be bit about it and see ut as an invasive pest
Because wallstreet just needs to see that AI adoption number go up. No one really cares about if it's accidental clicks, or hell just mandatory running in the background. We just need that number to go up, and next quarter it has to go up even more.
> Copilot has this image that has something to do with coding
To the audience of this site, yeah. But "copilot" is Microsoft trying to brand "an agent/assistant". They use it across their entire product line; copilot is in office so you can ask for help with spreadsheet formulas and in outlook so you can ask for help with summary/triage... and it's in VSCode/GH.
Microsoft saw the way the USB people absolutely screwed up the marketing/branding around different generations and speeds and capabilities and said "I bet the same strategy will work spectacularly well for us" and thus _everything_ became copilot.
I still think that most people don't know what it is. There's so much shit getting installed on peoples TVs / PCs / Phones that they didn't ask for, I think that they just ignore it like they do SPAM.
Back when IE was king, nobody even knew what the hell Internet Explorer was. They just clicked the blue E thing to get to Google.
The customer era is over when advertisers are paying more than customers. The advertiser era is over when any corporation wants to buy AI trained on each customer like a harness on each horse.
All that I have available in typical stores are smart TVs. The rest is some display panels meant for commercial installations (like big ad screens, multiple, working as one), which are only available online at a premium price.
Yes, but they can be a bit tricky to find. You can find them used. You can use a computer monitor.
Ultimately, I'm planning for a world where the technological decline continues (ie, technology continues to be something which its users do not own or control) and things like adblock just don't work anymore. When that finally happens, I'm honestly going to be watching DVDs, VHS, reading books, etc. This is a game of cat and mouse and if I'm pushed far enough I'm just going to check out of the system completely. TV is not so valuable that I'm going to let some sleazy company push me around.
I tried to do that, really did, but my TV was circa 2006 and I needed a replacement. None of the options in my region are good, there's no Scepter equivalent unless you pay 3x as much for something akin to a commercial display. So, air-gapping it is!
I never connected my smart tvs to the internet. I buy the cheapest TV (at the size I want) and connect an old laptop, lid closed, and a cheap mini keyboard. It does everything I want, never updates itself with unwanted features and never shows me ads. Been doing this for 10 years, why would anyone actually want a smart tv.
The problem is this doesn't really work anymore with Widevine protected content. You are not getting Widevine L1 protected content through Windows or other type of home desktop operating system. Even without L1 content, platforms like Youtube won't serve 5.1 surround unless it's through an app and not the browser.
I'm not saying you need a smart TV, but if you want to get the content you're actually paying for via Netflix, HBO etc in the highest quality they offer, you'll need to fork over money for a device with dedicated hardware
Years ago my Sony TV came with Google Assistant enabled, and when I disabled it, it nagged me for a long time to turn it back on until I installed some launcher that finally shut off all the nags and full screen ads. The biggest button on the remote is Google Assistant and I have to keep a careful eye on whoever's using it so that they don't accidentally re-enable it.
Small data point: I brought a Sony Android TV in 2023 which doesn't have any of the annoyances I keep reading about here. Made in Japan for the Japanese market, haven't seen a single ad and it predates my use of AdGuard DNS. Whether this is a regional or Sony thing I'm not sure.
How is this my fault as customer? This a predatory practice in tech.
I work in automotive, the hoops you have to jump through in order to push a SW update are enormous. One of the first rules is: if the owner of the vehicle does not consent to an OTA update, you're out of luck.
The industry is obviously unable to self-regulate, so it is time for an external regulator, e.g. the EU, to jump in and mandate that SW updates cannot be applied without explicit consent and an explicit explanation of what is being changed. Of course, security updates must be maintained separately from feature updates like this.
As a consumer, I always want the latter, rarely do I want the former. My device, my choice.
It could be worse. You could have Alexa on your Samsung OLED TV that triggers in response to something random you say while watching your TV then self-cancels but leaves the TV in a no-audio state until you power-cycle it (standby to live will not suffice).
Oh I know this bug! Happens with their own Bixby assistant too.
(Either Samsung dropped the ball on quality in the last 5-10 years, or I just started to pay attention, but the desire to throw this garbage in the bin is real.)
So what does it do? In the discussion yesterday no one covered that.
From what this article says it is an app (which fits with how it is displayed in the screenshot), which suggests you would need to choose to open it to actually have it do anything.
There are firmware updates that improve picture quality, address compatibility issues that are discovered after release, and even increase the lifetime of the TV.
Smart TVs are maybe the dumbest product innovation of my lifetime. Ruining a perfectly good appliance with the addition of software. In 2025 it's literally a luxury experience to deal with computer bs less.
At first I was going to disagree, because having the compute built into the TV makes some sense, but thinking about it made me change my mind.
A modern TV has a lifetime of 15 - 20 years I think. E.g. my in-laws have a Sony TV, from around 2012 - 2013. It's not 4K obviously, but the picture is beautiful, the sound perfectly fills their small living room, it's a great TV. Even considering that Sony did skimp on the compute in that TV from the start, there's no way that they could have put in hardware that would future proof it until 2030 or beyond. Nor could they reasonably charge enough to cover software updates for that long. It makes much more sense to have a replaceable external unit.
Thank god, the sooner we start to appreciate the wide spread adoption of AI the sooner we can start being more productive.
A TV is the perfect place to introduce AI in terms of giving me content I should actually enjoy, and answering any questions I may have about what I'm watching. Kudos to LG for being the first.
Sure, but there is a prioritization system involved where the highest payer gets pushed first. So the AI may detemine you like X, but if the buyer only showing Y, you'll get to see ads for Y and no X.
My rule for modern TVs:
1. Never connect the TV panel itself to the internet. Keep it air-gapped. Treat it solely as a dumb monitor.
2. Use an Apple TV for the "smart" features.
3. Avoid Fire TV, Chromecast, or Roku.
The logic is simple, Google (Chromecast) and Amazon (Fire TV) operate on the same business model as the TV manufacturers subsidized hardware in exchange for user data and ad inventory. Apple is the only mainstream option where the hardware cost covers the experience, rather than your viewing habits subsidizing the device.
My new rule for modern TVs is don't have a TV at all. The social role of having a TV is rapidly dwindling. First off, the number of movies and TV shows that merit even being watched is dwindling. Secondly, even if you find something worth watching, the odds that anybody else will want to watch it is small; everybody has been atomized by recommendation algorithms, everybody gets shown a different set of ads and media, there's no longer and shared culture when it comes to media. It used to be that everybody went home and watched NBC or one of the two other channels, all saw the same ads for the same movies and shows, so if you mentioned one the next day everybody knew what you were talking about. This is no longer true, if you try to bring up some Netflix show you heard of last night, probaby nobody else has heard of it. Now let's say you actually talk somebody into watching something with you despite that... What are the odds that both they and you get through the show or movie without reaching for their phone? Almost zero, in my experience.
It's done. The cultural significance of TV is toast. Our culture is too atomized, too personalized for shared experiences. Large TVs, centerpiece of the living room, are becoming an anachronism that date people as being from a previous era when television was still a shared cultural experience.
I just want a massive screen to watch my content on - everything else you mention is irrelevant.
I like rewatching old TV shows and films, streamed from my Jellyfin server.
For me, my rule is to get a Google TV, because I can change out the launcher to Flauncher. At least that way I don't see any ads. Google may well still be tracking me, but they do all over the web and I have an Android phone so they've already got plenty of data on me. I just avoid their ads so that it minimises the profitability of that data.
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I agree that the days when “everyone” watched the same show are done. But if you can find a small group to watch a show with (better in person), then there are better shows available for that experience these last several years, even if the average quality has gone down.
What are some of your favorite shared experiences to replace tv?
>First off, the number of movies and TV shows that merit even being watched is dwindling
The first item in your list to others is subjective
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Yeah I mean it isn’t like there isn’t decades of content you can catch up on or anything.
It frustrates me that this is where we have come too.
I refuse to connect any of my TV's to the internet but I have to wonder how long until a few different things happen:
- The TV's just connect to unsecure Wifi and collect the data anyways (I think there were reports of at least one manufacture already doing this at one point?). Or just make a deal with xfinity to use their mesh network that seems to be everywhere.
- The TV's don't work without being connected to the internet.
- The manufactures find out that the cost of adding in a cellular modem is justified by the increase in data they can collect.
I would love the idea of buying a modern TV without any of this crap shoved in, I happily use my Apple TV for everything that isnt video games.
It bothers me though when it seems like to fix an issue with HDR or something I need to update the firmware. I have wondered on occasion if this is intentional to "force" people to connect. If I have to do this I will run an ethernet cable to temporarily connect.
99.999% of TV's are connected directly to the Internet by their users without any restrictions. Investing in additional hardware or operator deals to capture the remaining .001% isn't typically worth it, for now.
For one of our Samsung TVs, we were able to put the update on a thumb drive (we're old, we still have some around) and then use that to install the update on the TV.
It's kind of funny, we bought these TVs because they were "smart" (when they first came out) but they were so clunky and unreliable we disconnected them and used either PS or Apple TV for other things. Now we wouldn't connect our TVs to the internet for anything, and only use PS5s for specific things. We mostly just use our Apple TV.
What do you think of Nvidia Shield? I haven't tried it, but I think it should also belong to 2). It's clearly much more expensive than a FireTV, but as you say it shouldn't be subsidized by ads. As an Android device it should be more open than an Apple TV. While I recognize the near flawless UI and high hardware quality of most Apple devices, I disagree with their "golden cage" or walled garden approach.
I see many people liking their shield, and with good reason it seems, but is it a worthy ecosystem to buy in to when it has not seen a new hardware revision since 2019?
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The Shield Pro is perfect for me and I have no reason to upgrade. Have mine downgraded and de-bloated using this guide [0] running a custom launcher. Like you said being Android and more open helps a lot.
[0] https://florisse.nl/shield-debloat/
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I've had the same Shield for about 8 years and it's still going strong, has all the hardware decoding I need
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I use the non-Pro version for 1080p streaming and have for years. It’s great, does what I want and gets out of the way. Some years ago they were forced by Google to use the standard AndroidTV UI instead of their own custom one, which means it now shows ads on the home screen (a carousel of “watch this on service X”), which are inoffensive enough I haven’t bothered to circumvent them. You can swap to your own custom UI if you want with some ssh futzing.
OG Chromecast is specifically being phased out because it doesn't offer the same level of control as the current crop of "smart" TVs/devices.
I image they will be much sought-after, unless you are suggesting they are being bricked
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I'm still disappointed they killed the Chromecast Audio... have one uptairs I use regularly. Would have bought a couple extra had I known.
Chromecast hardware wasn't ever sold at a loss, AFAIK. These things were/are pretty pricey for being long-outdated SoCs equivalent to low range smartphone SoCs and a HDMI driver chip.
I got one of those Google TV Streamer boxes, put a different launcher on it (Projectivy Launcher), and it's been great, no ads or anything.
Maybe this is what I need to do.
I disconnected our living room LG TV from the internet and got a Fire Stick 4K Max, but I hate it; 90% of the screen is advert, and you get a tiny sliver for the 5 apps it lets you see, and you have to go digging for the rest, not to mention the home-screen advertising isn't always appropriate for young children.
I hadn't considered Apple TV because I've never been an Apple user, but perhaps this is what I need.
Though I'm an Android user, all of the Android TV devices seem to be junk or ad-ridden junk.
Is Apple TV the way to go (asking other opinions).
Yes.
The only other one I'd seriously consider is the nVidia Shield (Pro?). But the risk with that is that it's decade old hardware with no updates in sight. It's more for the "My Plex/Jellyfin server has all the movies and TV shows ever" -crowd :)
Meanwhile my 1st gen 4k AppleTV (6-ish years old?) is chugging away perfectly and runs every single 3rd party streaming platform I need - even the local ones. As a market it's just too big to ignore.
And no ads anywhere on the front page. The top row apps get to show their stuff on the top part, but it's not "ads" in my book - unlike Google TV that just shoves full-screen crap of "YOU WANNA SEE THIS MARVEL MOVIE?!" at you no matter where you browse.
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I've been using an AppleTV as the primary way to get content to my (dumb, vintage 2007) TV for approximately a decade now.
While my usage has increasingly shifted toward drawing from my personal library through first Plex, then Jellyfin, I've also used Netflix, YouTube, Twitch, Amazon Prime Video, AppleTV+, and probably a couple of other content apps I'm forgetting on it. Aside from some issues with the UI of individual apps (which is, of course, on the developers), it all works great. Many of the apps can even show you a couple of tiles of "suggested content" right from the home screen (for instance, when I select the Netflix app, but before I launch it, it currently shows the next episodes from the most recent two shows I've been watching on it).
There are various ways in which an AppleTV can be better if you're already in the Apple ecosystem (which I am), but you absolutely do not need to be to make excellent use of it.
It can even join your Tailscale network and act as an exit node, giving you a quick & dirty VPN into your home network!
Happy apple tv user for > 5 years now. It has icons for the apps you want to start on the home screen. You click the icons. The apps start.
It's connected to a samsung tv that's not allowed wifi access. Besides the bad and steadily worsening UX of streaming apps like Netflix, my setup itself never shows me any ads.
Also the apple tv remote has a very solid, premium feel, which i like
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I just hook up a (linux) laptop to my TV, personally. I have a mouse (and a bluetooth keyboard which I rarely use) to interface.
I have no idea if that would in some way impact something like streaming quality because I don't have any streaming services; I live in australia where the streaming companies simply don't bother organising streaming rights for worthwhile media. I also like to own things I want to rewatch.
If I wanted to get fancy (and if I had a TV capable of connecting to the internet, which I don't) I might consider setting it up as a media server or look at NAS solutions, but my laptop is perfect for me as is.
Before you buy an Apple TV you can try installing ProjectIvy launcher and see if that suits your needs. It's basically a simplified launcher UI for Android TV devices.
It's not perfect, not if it suits your needs you won't have to buy another device.
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A cheap used mini desktop with a linux install on it is also a good way to go. Throw in a wireless mouse and keyboard and you can do not only what an AppleTV or Android box does but also everything a cheap used mini pc can do.
Even something like this: https://www.ebay.com/itm/127547167640
Would be a media powerhouse compared to almost any set top box you can buy.
Throw OpenElec or OSMC on it for simple media setup or Bazzite or Ubuntu for a normal linux desktop with downloadable applications for most streaming platforms.
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You could install Flauncher or another launcher onto Android TV. Then you don't see ads.
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What's wrong with Roku? They have a few ads here and there but I've always found the interface to be super slick. And they aren't Google, so not as harmful to share my data with? (a big assumption, I know)
Roku has been bad in a number of ways, but here's one:
https://techcrunch.com/2024/03/05/roku-disables-tvs-and-stre...
I wouldn't assume Roku is better to share your data with. Google uses your data to feed their own algorithms instead of just straight up selling it. Their incentive is to keep the data internal so they alone can extract value from it.
Roku just directly sells it to anyone who wants it: https://advertising.roku.com/learn/resources/roku-unveils-da...
"Few ads here and there" is always worse than "no ads".
This is what we've been doing for a few years now. It works.
This works until eARC breaks and you have to update (LG C6, never connected to the internet, only using AppleTV). And then of course the next LG update will break eARC again.
Exactly. I disabled internet access on my LG C1 after an update reenabled the setting that pops up adverts over the top of what you're watching.
Mini pc + HDMI. Oh look, everything is free and no ads
I’ve thought about doing this, what kind of device do you use for input?
I have a Logitech K400 Plus portable keyboard and it works great for general use, but I end up using my Apple TV on the couch instead since I prefer using a TV remote / gamepad to navigate.
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just make sure at least one side of your TV connection doesn't support HDMI Ethernet Channel ;P
> 1. Never connect the TV panel itself to the internet. Keep it air-gapped. Treat it solely as a dumb monitor.
I gave up on this. I turned off a lot of the smart features but couldn’t justify not being able to use the apps.
It’s pretty dystopian my TV spying on me for sure but they’ve already got my phone, my internet history and presumably some pretty good spy satellites
If a drone has my name on it I’m done for either way
100%. Roku's privacy policy is the most wildly invasive thing I've ever seen - basically everything that used to be just conspiracy theory.
This
> My rule for modern TVs:
> 1. Never connect the TV panel itself to the internet. Keep it air-gapped. Treat it solely as a dumb monitor.
A sensible rule, indeed. Next level of dystopia: cellular modems becoming so cheap that every TV, fridge and washing machine comes with one that connects it to the Internet whether you like it or not. And then when we Faraday cage those, the device refuses to function.
Laws need to keep up and ban this shit outright. It sounds exactly like something that the EU could help with.
The EU actually mandated that cars have a modem ("eCall"), so they could self-report accidents. I think this has been under reported even in tech circles.
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> Next level of dystopia: cellular modems becoming so cheap that every TV, fridge and washing machine comes with one that connects it to the Internet whether you like it or not.
That's already a reality with cars in Europe.
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Surely if Copilot was so useful and great, it wouldn't be free and they wouldn't be trying to force it down unwilling people's throats at every opportunity.
I'm beginning to think this AI stuff isn't all it's cracked up to be...
> useful
That's not even the endgoal they are aiming at. Suppose you have a data churning loop you want to run forever. First step is to send a copy everywhere (anywhere) and in whatever shape and form to feast. Otherwise it just sits there looking at the nuclear plant next door.
I've been a heavy user of the MS Copilot chat app on my Android phone, which I've been pretty happy with as a free basic AI chat option except for some annoying GUI bugs that they will apparently never get around to fixing. But I've yet to see a good use outside of the chat interface.
Reminds me of Amazon discovering most people don't use Alexa for much beyond setting cooking timers.
I'm not confident they have any sensible vision beyond "meet the KPI for Copilot usage".
its so that they can tell the investors that "100 million" people use their bs
I wonder if it is possible to install a standard Linux distro on LG TVs. There is KDE Plasma Bigscreen for a TV-like experience on such distros.
https://plasma-bigscreen.org/
If not, there are some webOS exploits on this wiki page:
https://wiki.debian.org/Exploits
Hopefully the Vizio lawsuit will mean the right to repair software comes to TVs more easily.
https://sfconservancy.org/copyleft-compliance/vizio.html
I saw that rootmy.tv works for some versions of webos.
I would love to have this at home on one of the random boxes lying around. But is there a way yet to play Netflix &co in hd ?
You can absolutely jailbreak them and install whatever
*If you have one that hasn't updated itself since last year.
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Click ‘Install’ on Plasma Bigscreen page -> oops, here's a notice that you can't use it. What's the point? Why not at least suggest instructions for a dev/testing/at-your-own-risk build?
Of course it can't be deleted.
They need to force induce AI demand to pump up the dashboards for shareholders. Thus they are converting every possible input line in the world into AI inputs. Do you think they redesigned Windows Run dialog[1] out of the blue just for fun?
[1] https://www.reddit.com/r/Windows11/comments/1pe93r2/after_30...
For similar reasons many years back when I broke the bank for a G2, I decided to disconnect it forever. Besides the always-on spyware, every update broke something, which is incredibly frustrating considering the amount I spent. For instance, I got a GX soundbar for free with the TV which worked fine for 1–2 months until some update borked it and made it glitch out randomly. To date, none of their updates seem to have fixed it. I now only connect it back to the web — if needed — once a year or so but even this needs plenty of careful research across the web to see if the update package breaks something else I take for granted.
Hooking up an Apple TV 4K to this thing was the best decision I ever made and the sheer performance of this thing puts every TV vendor to shame. I would recommend everyone to do the same if they're already in the Apple ecosystem.
I agree ive hooked up apple tv to override the crappy subsidized smart tv built ins that spy on you. That works until apple changes leadership and new leadership starts significantly mining data and caring less about privacy. It will happen at some point, not on Cooks term but someone else im sure of it.
While I've left my now fairly old TV on the internet, I use optical (TOSLINK) out to a cheap class D amplifier, which seems to have been a more reliable system than any of the HDMI audio based ones.
Is it possible to use an LG without ever connecting it to the internet in the first place?
Maybe related: I bought an LG TV in 2014 or so, I was interested in what its calls home communicated, so I MItM'ed it to capture the http (no s!) traffic. I never did bother to analyze the requests and responses..
But I got a newer LG model 2 years ago, I was still redirecting requests to LG's servers to a local web server (using DNS), but I guess due to https, the certificate checks failed and the attempts to call home failed. This meant that I never got asked to agree to the T&As.
But of course many apps don't work..
I am currently using one that is prevented from connecting to the internet via firewall rules from my router and all media comes from a separate jellyfin server. Had to allow enough of an internet access to install the app but once that was done, everything going outside lan is blocked.
Also most tvs have usb ports so maybe either raw media or some third part dongle can service as well?
Also also, most tvs of this caliber have hdmi you can plug your computer to.
Yes. I just got a new LG C3 OLED. I skipped the guided setup, then disabled any “smart” video manipulations. I connected it to an Apple TV, made sure the ATV’s remote worked, and Velcroed the LG remote to the back of the TV. The TV works great and hasn’t yet nagged me for internet access.
Yes. You can install firmware updates over usb.
I've done that with both LG OLEDs that I've had.
Makes me more and more glad that I never let my TV on any network and only use it as a display for Apple TV, the Blu-Ray player, and playing media from USB drives...
My LG TV has been offline for the past 2 years (since I got it). I'm so much happier using the Apple TV.
I know people want "dumb" displays, but the reality is that these OLED panels offer industry-leading image quality and benefit from economies of scale, where most users want some form of built-in OS. A signage board cannot compete on price or quality. As long as TV manufacturers let me run it offline without issue, I'm fine with that.
Also fwiw, you can use apps like Infuse on the Apple TV for playing your own media files over the network. No Need for USB drives, just connect direct to the shared folder.
> As long as TV manufacturers let me run it offline without issue, I'm fine with that.
I suspect that this won't be the case for much longer. Once you've stuffed the TV with all the ads and data harvesting you can, the logical next step is to ensure it doesn't work at all unless those ads are being watched and that data is being harvested.
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> I'm so much happier using the Apple TV.
Then it is Apple that is harvesting your data. They may or may not display ads (I don't have an AppleTV to check), but they are certainly logging your interactions and possibly selling that data with third parties. That is on top of all the data Apple already has on people using iPhones, and the reason why I will never use anything other than a free/libre ROM like Graphene or Lineage.
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Apple TV is the best device for using Plex with a TV fwiw.
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> signage board cannot compete on price or quality.
Those aren't the only two options. There are commerical TVs (eg in hotels) that are very close to standard TVs, but with a minimal interface.
> but the reality is that these OLED panels offer industry-leading image quality
Except in scenes with fire (like a campfire) or where some spots may have high brightness compared to the surroundings. The LG OLED TVs I’ve seen all go blank in such scenes. The TVs I’ve seen that have LCD panels don’t have this issue. It seems like the only way to disable it (after turning off power saving and a few other things) is to buy and use a service remote to turn off ASBL. From my online reading, it seems like doing this may void the warranty and probably have negative effects on the life of the panel.
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I will point out, there are sometimes some really legitimate firmware updates that actually enhance or correct shortcomings on the TVs, especially for cinephiles on high-end units and for recently-released models that have firmware that needs work.
You can find people who cover the content of these updates, such as Vincent from HDTVtest.
What I tend to do is leave my WiFi off and then occasionally turn it on and connect for firmware updates, then disable it afterward.
I've also found that on my LG OLED that a lot of the crapware doesn't even have an option to function if you just never accept the terms and conditions or un-accept them. The UI doesn't make it perfectly obvious that you can do this but you absolutely can.
This stuff is very much anti-consumer, but can generally be mitigated by vigilant settings-chasing and a willingness to ignore the TV interface and use a dedicated streaming box with essentially no ads like an Apple TV.
Same happy boat here. Mine has never seen the light of network access. I just don’t trust these things at all.
I left a relative house sitting, specifically told them to use the Xbox if they need Netflix etc, and of course they connected the TV to the wifi and just hit accept on everything. Luckily it was still new enough that LG hadn’t put out a patch to cram it full of ads yet.
After that I blocked the MAC address at my router.
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> Makes me more and more glad that I never let my TV on any network..
Sigh! These manufacturers have repeated this so many times that it is probably in their corporate subversion manual now. This is no consolation at all. They first introduce 'optional' features like this. Then they tighten the screw such that you get degraded performance if you don't use that feature. Finally they make it unavoidable. How are we missing it every time?
Haven't we seen how this evolved in the case of windows login using their 365 account? Haven't we seen how Android smartphone unlocking and custom ROM flashing got gradually more difficult over the years until we can't do that anymore?
If you rely on compromises or shortcuts out of this problem, you'll eventually find yourself without any. We need to nip this trend in the bud. Punish them with a tanked market.
> Additionally, LG has a setting called "Live Plus" that Reddit users highlighted. When it's turned on, the TV can recognize what's displayed on screen and use that viewing information for personalized recommendations and ads. LG describes it as an "enhanced viewing experience,"
Ah. So it's not "AI." It's an "opportunity to spy on every single thing you do."
Those are completely separate. "Live Plus" is a TV setting that has nothing to do with Copilot and has been on their TVs for a long time.
> has been on their TVs for a long time.
It's not just LG! They keep trying to shove "a return channel" into the latest ATSC standards for DRM and "enhanced / more accurate ratings".
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And how long is a "long time", Mr. "It's old and boring that TV manufacturers do this so there's no point in being angry or complaining"?
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At least since 2010. Turned off as soon as I bought mine.
Every AI company is doing the same thing, there is nothing special about Microsoft in this instance. If you're using a 3rd party provider for your queries you can assume it is going to end up in the training corpus.
"enhanced" (profit) for them, not for you.
Old Microsoft learned from the Clippy debacle, and more recently from the Windows 8.1 modern UI debacle. I'm not sure new Microsoft will learn this time...
Put your "smart" TV behind a Linux HTPC or a free/libre Android ROM and never, ever allow it to communicate over the Internet.
There have been reports of TVs with wi-fi managing to find an open network nearby and using that to get access to its updates and to send its telemetry. Having to physically hack a TV to disable its wi-fi is just.. At this point maybe a monitor is actucally the better choice even if the cost is high.
> ... and never, ever allow it to communicate over the Internet.
I'm pretty sure they're working on solving that problem.
Doubt it, 99% of consumers will connect it to the internet. The remaining 1% will be blocking ads everywhere making the data rather useless and potentially poisoned.
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I've had an LG tv for a couple years. I was previously able to use LG's THINQ app on my phone like a remote to operate the tv. A couple days ago I went in the app to use the remote and the feature had been totally locked behind the "access local networks & devices" permission... This permission was never needed in the past 3 years yet now it's necessary for the same functionality.
So, I disconnected the TV from the internet, uninstalled the app, and bought an Apple TV 3rd gen. LG TV quality is great but their software is unbearable.
Wouldn't it make sense for a remote control to need to access local network & devices? Like, without this permission, the only way the controller would work is through a cloud service, so I would personally be pretty happy to discover the app requests this permission, as it would likely mean the app will keep working when LG inevitably shuts down their cloud server...
You're giving a lot of charity to LG. They're probably trying to fingerprint people with the extra permissions
I am surprised it wasn't needed till now. This needs a lan connection and definitely will need access to local networks.
I'd pay triple for an LG "dumb" TV. This is outrageous.
Look up signage displays. Only problem with them is that they may be overly industrial and missing things that consumers would want, like Dolby Vision.
I don’t think Microsoft realizes that this is not a positive for their brand.
It's a positive for a nameless middle manager somewhere who can show their boss a graph with a line moving to the right and up with a title like "AI Adoption Across Platforms" and hit their bonus target.
This is 100% the why.
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3 Billion Devices run Java, I mean Copilot.
if you work in a restauraunt, and decide salt is cheaper than sugar, and fill the bowls like that, someone will find out, like your manager.
telling your boss we are selling sugar, when its actually salt, is a good recipe for footgunning.
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They don’t care. The customer service era is over.
It doesn't matter if consumers don't like it if everyone does it. The only choice remaining then is to put up with it or not have a TV at all.
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its none too good for LG either;
also: i think this sort of behaviour is exactly how you chill updates of any sort. it may take a while but when it is publicly salient that updates are sophies choice, and large pie slices of devices stay stock and unconnected, that will dry up that watering hole.
paranoia regarding un-updated devices will give way to paranoia regarding updates being used to screw you into something you would never consent to.
Next step is having cell modems in the TVs so you can’t stop updates and invading your privacy.
I've had this with Android updates.
When you remove my ability to see if a Bluetooth device is connected with a security update, why would I willingly install any more of your updates?
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They force AI demand to show it to the shareholders. So they couldn't care less whether that's positive on the receiving end.
they wont take much of a hit on the brand because of this, so they'll make up for that in marketing elsewhere.
this will however give them huge amounts of information... its a loss leader for them.
As a reminder if you own an LG TV, turn off the sneakily named "Live Plus" thing. This "option" makes your LG TV spy on you, tracking and reporting what you watch based on the image that is shown on the TV.
You need to go to Settings -> All Settings -> General -> System -> Additional Settings to make sure the "Live Plus" option is OFF.
Check it periodically, as it sometimes turns itself back on again after updates.
The enshittification of our world is beyond words.
Saw this post this morning before getting on a plane and saved the tab open so I'd do it first thing when I got home.
Done.
Thanks for the tip. :)
"Check it periodically, as it sometimes turns itself back on again after updates."
Ah, so exactly like Microsoft Windows operating systems behave.
And iOS / iPadOS for that matter, after every update
What a shame, they run webOS is which is really interesting on these, though LG continues to implement the most anti consumer things they can think of.
Trying to adjust the brightness on an OLED model is a journey
Is it always listening? If not now, can it be changed to always be listening by a remote update? Can that update be selectively sent to certain users? Who controls which users?
It sees you when you're sleeping.
It knows when you're awake.
It knows if you've been bad or good
So be good for goodness sake.
It knows your internet behaviour and sends it to its masters.
Its masters sell that data to anyone who wants it.
Anyone will judge you.
I have an LG TV purchased about 3 years ago. It had a bunch of "AI" features from day one, but mostly related to improving the picture quality dynamically based on what's on the screen. I disabled all of that stuff, so I guess I'll be disabling this too.
The LG software is horrible on this TV. Great picture quality, but I would never recommend an LG TV just because of the software.
No TV manufacturer is capable of writing high quality software. Somewhat surprisingly they also suck at UI/UX design.
I'd love for someone to mention a single TV manufacturer who provides a good, not amazing, just good, smart TV experience.
It's crazy to read this because I came from a Samsung TV/Display - LG Software is so much better than that!
Really wish we'd get dumb displays with these great panels :(
We also have a Samsung TV, and I much prefer the Samsung software over the LG. Neither is great though.
So far nothing prevents you from spending $100 to set up LibreElec on an RPi and leave the TV offline and dumb.
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The worm propagates without human interaction.
I only wish my systems to defecate its corpse soon.
I have an OLED from them that’s 5 years old or so now, I have never once updated it or used any of the software beyond switching inputs and screen/color settings. It’s sad if it sounds like it’s getting to the point where you can’t just use a screen as a dumb screen as an option, I never minded smart features… as long as I never had to use them.
I recently bought a $250 Zojurishi rice cooker because I wanted quality, durability and no "trade offs" I am going to start buying more and more Japanese electronics if US and South Korean companies keep colluding with each other in inserting garbage.
Samsung is already preloading intelligence service software and "365 copilot" into their phones to trick old people into paying for a subscription to open a PDF (it sets itself as a default app).
At this point it's a war against the consumer.
And it's not just this, they are slowly phasing out consumer hardware (GPU price increase, RAM, non NVME SSDs, etc.) in an effort to make hardware ownership impossible thus creating a "Market" for the post bubble burst of AI where they will be renting out PC hardware (all these datacenters that they are building which will be useless).
This is US led and also conveniently both the US and South Korea are involved, as they shut down China (both GPUs and RAM manufacturers in China were blacklisted).
It's not a coincidence, I Imagine the threats of potential tariffs if they do not comply does not help with their "independent thinking".
Ironically, Apple stands apart from basically all of these trends. We will see if they profit or perish because of it.
Sony TVs are not much better, I had to do quite a bit of work to de-Google mine. This was years ago, I'm sure it's even worse now.
Huge shame. I have an LG running WebOS that I bought in 2012 and is still going strong and receiving updates (well, it received one last year, but not this one).
I was always impressed with how unshittified it was, and knew that when I got another TV it would be a WebOS LG.
Now this :(
Thankfully I've yet to see a 'smart projector.' Highly recommend as a replacement for a standard TV; much bigger screen size, more portable, more 'cinema feel,' plus it can't connect to WiFi even if you wanted it to.
LG and BENQ has quite some smart ones. They have a custom OS called WebOS. Actually you can only get non-smart ones only if you buy commercial projectors.
https://www.lg.com/us/projectors
I think generally as you move up in quality/performance the app stuff drops away. Epson for example has a bunch of sub-$1500 "streaming" projectors, but as you move up into the more purpose-built "home theater" models that quickly disappears in favor of things like higher contrast levels and motorized lens/shift memory.
> more 'cinema feel,'
Until you've had the experience of a large (>77" WOLED Panel). They are just great.
Why? If they want to even embed copilot, they could have atleast been strategic about it!! Copilot has this image that has something to do with coding, average person doesn’t care be bit about it and see ut as an invasive pest
>Why?
Because wallstreet just needs to see that AI adoption number go up. No one really cares about if it's accidental clicks, or hell just mandatory running in the background. We just need that number to go up, and next quarter it has to go up even more.
> Copilot has this image that has something to do with coding
To the audience of this site, yeah. But "copilot" is Microsoft trying to brand "an agent/assistant". They use it across their entire product line; copilot is in office so you can ask for help with spreadsheet formulas and in outlook so you can ask for help with summary/triage... and it's in VSCode/GH.
Microsoft saw the way the USB people absolutely screwed up the marketing/branding around different generations and speeds and capabilities and said "I bet the same strategy will work spectacularly well for us" and thus _everything_ became copilot.
I still think that most people don't know what it is. There's so much shit getting installed on peoples TVs / PCs / Phones that they didn't ask for, I think that they just ignore it like they do SPAM.
Back when IE was king, nobody even knew what the hell Internet Explorer was. They just clicked the blue E thing to get to Google.
The customer era is over when advertisers are paying more than customers. The advertiser era is over when any corporation wants to buy AI trained on each customer like a harness on each horse.
My decision never to buy a smart TV just keeps paying off.
Can you buy a generic TV nowadays?
All that I have available in typical stores are smart TVs. The rest is some display panels meant for commercial installations (like big ad screens, multiple, working as one), which are only available online at a premium price.
Yes, but they can be a bit tricky to find. You can find them used. You can use a computer monitor.
Ultimately, I'm planning for a world where the technological decline continues (ie, technology continues to be something which its users do not own or control) and things like adblock just don't work anymore. When that finally happens, I'm honestly going to be watching DVDs, VHS, reading books, etc. This is a game of cat and mouse and if I'm pushed far enough I'm just going to check out of the system completely. TV is not so valuable that I'm going to let some sleazy company push me around.
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I tried to do that, really did, but my TV was circa 2006 and I needed a replacement. None of the options in my region are good, there's no Scepter equivalent unless you pay 3x as much for something akin to a commercial display. So, air-gapping it is!
I never connected my smart tvs to the internet. I buy the cheapest TV (at the size I want) and connect an old laptop, lid closed, and a cheap mini keyboard. It does everything I want, never updates itself with unwanted features and never shows me ads. Been doing this for 10 years, why would anyone actually want a smart tv.
The problem is this doesn't really work anymore with Widevine protected content. You are not getting Widevine L1 protected content through Windows or other type of home desktop operating system. Even without L1 content, platforms like Youtube won't serve 5.1 surround unless it's through an app and not the browser.
I'm not saying you need a smart TV, but if you want to get the content you're actually paying for via Netflix, HBO etc in the highest quality they offer, you'll need to fork over money for a device with dedicated hardware
Google Meet comes by default on some Samsung TV, cannot be deleted, or disabled, and neither can the microphone permission be remove from it.
Smart TVs, more like Spy TVs today.
Years ago my Sony TV came with Google Assistant enabled, and when I disabled it, it nagged me for a long time to turn it back on until I installed some launcher that finally shut off all the nags and full screen ads. The biggest button on the remote is Google Assistant and I have to keep a careful eye on whoever's using it so that they don't accidentally re-enable it.
Cover the button in epoxy..
Oh this is perfect, one less vendor to ever consider.
And this is exactly why I never connect my TV to wifi
I can't wait for my refrigerator to come preinstalled with chatgpt. Imagine all the possibilities!
Small data point: I brought a Sony Android TV in 2023 which doesn't have any of the annoyances I keep reading about here. Made in Japan for the Japanese market, haven't seen a single ad and it predates my use of AdGuard DNS. Whether this is a regional or Sony thing I'm not sure.
FFS. When I bought LG OLED TV, it was quite snappy. A year later, it asked to update webOS. OK. Now we are crawling through molasses...
All TV software seems appears to be an absolute fucking scam.
Why are people still connecting their TVs to the internet?
I thought this is already common wisdom for people in tech for decades to NEVER connect your TV to the internet, not even once.
How is this my fault as customer? This a predatory practice in tech.
I work in automotive, the hoops you have to jump through in order to push a SW update are enormous. One of the first rules is: if the owner of the vehicle does not consent to an OTA update, you're out of luck.
The industry is obviously unable to self-regulate, so it is time for an external regulator, e.g. the EU, to jump in and mandate that SW updates cannot be applied without explicit consent and an explicit explanation of what is being changed. Of course, security updates must be maintained separately from feature updates like this.
As a consumer, I always want the latter, rarely do I want the former. My device, my choice.
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Well, you get better UX with native remote. I can always make add an external dongle unless it's bricked
it's pretty tempting when it's one of the few ways to watch 4k netflix and the likes
It could be worse. You could have Alexa on your Samsung OLED TV that triggers in response to something random you say while watching your TV then self-cancels but leaves the TV in a no-audio state until you power-cycle it (standby to live will not suffice).
Oh I know this bug! Happens with their own Bixby assistant too.
(Either Samsung dropped the ball on quality in the last 5-10 years, or I just started to pay attention, but the desire to throw this garbage in the bin is real.)
This is clippy’s revenge on the world.
So what does it do? In the discussion yesterday no one covered that.
From what this article says it is an app (which fits with how it is displayed in the screenshot), which suggests you would need to choose to open it to actually have it do anything.
It should at least do its core function: collect data.
My TV only gets internet access when there is a firmware update I care about
If it's not online, why would there ever be a firmware update you care about?
There are firmware updates that improve picture quality, address compatibility issues that are discovered after release, and even increase the lifetime of the TV.
Never connect a smart TV to the internet. That's how they get you.
Smart TVs are maybe the dumbest product innovation of my lifetime. Ruining a perfectly good appliance with the addition of software. In 2025 it's literally a luxury experience to deal with computer bs less.
At first I was going to disagree, because having the compute built into the TV makes some sense, but thinking about it made me change my mind.
A modern TV has a lifetime of 15 - 20 years I think. E.g. my in-laws have a Sony TV, from around 2012 - 2013. It's not 4K obviously, but the picture is beautiful, the sound perfectly fills their small living room, it's a great TV. Even considering that Sony did skimp on the compute in that TV from the start, there's no way that they could have put in hardware that would future proof it until 2030 or beyond. Nor could they reasonably charge enough to cover software updates for that long. It makes much more sense to have a replaceable external unit.
Fortunately you can still by an external unit and plug it in
Does LG have a customer feedback page or anything similar?
Even if they do, I'd assume they wouldn't read any of that feedback and just keep doing what they are doing anyway.
https://www.lg.com/uk/support/contact-us/share-your-voice-wi...
Assume there is similar for other countries, though I can't see this being of any use whatsoever.
I am still using my ancient Pioneer plasma and dreading the day it dies.
Any recommendations for a ≈42 inch dumb screen replacement for when that day arrives?
You can get a 55" Dell monitor for ~$1300. Maybe its time to just buy monitors with surround sound systems/soundbars.
[dupe] Discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46255335
Tell you everything about how MS co-pilot is useful.
Root it my friends, before it’s too late. Disable automatic updates immediately afterward.
I would pay money to be spare from all that product market manager hysteria..
Are there ven OLED panels without smartTV compute?
soon microsoft ll install copilot on your smart geyser, what ll ya do about it?
omg... THEY really want to push those AI AGENTS down our throats... Freaking weirdos. FUCK MICROSOFT.
Sadly, the only thing that AI really excels at is: AI spyware + AI slop generator (ads).
Mr Anderson…
Can Microsoft stop raping users by forcing itself upon us at every single turn with these AI products?
I'm getting sick of feeling so slimy and used.
Thank god, the sooner we start to appreciate the wide spread adoption of AI the sooner we can start being more productive.
A TV is the perfect place to introduce AI in terms of giving me content I should actually enjoy, and answering any questions I may have about what I'm watching. Kudos to LG for being the first.
Sure, but there is a prioritization system involved where the highest payer gets pushed first. So the AI may detemine you like X, but if the buyer only showing Y, you'll get to see ads for Y and no X.