Maybe I am thinking about this the wrong way so please correct me if I am wrong.
1. The civilian planes fly on pre published routes and communicate with air traffic controllers in plain text
1. Any covert military operation has access to these plans
1. I understand that there may be reasons why military planes might want to fly undetected but given they know where the civilian planes are and where they are flying, it should be trivial for the military ships and planes to avoid those areas.
> 1. The civilian planes fly on pre published routes and communicate with air traffic controllers in plain text
That's called a flight plan. It's just a declaration of intent, so that the ATCs know that you're expected. There are many valid reasons for deviating from the flight plan. For example, technical difficulties, bad weather, last minute diversions etc. That makes it very unreliable to predict the aircraft's location. You have to rely on your radar instead. The Military has some of the best radars around - especially on AEW&CS aircrafts and ships that stay close to conflict zones at all times.
> 1. I understand that there may be reasons why military planes might want to fly undetected but given they know where the civilian planes are and where they are flying, it should be trivial for the military ships and planes to avoid those areas.
Did you know that the Ronald Reagan Intl airport (DCA) saw one 'close call' between a civilian airliner and a military helicopter every month for the 13 year period from 2011 to 2024? [1]. That's close to 150 near disasters in total, for consecutive months for more than a decade! This is ridiculous!
Clearly, it's not a question if they can stay clear to avoid an incident. It's a question of if anyone cares at all.
If they deviate from their flight plan, don't they have to at least inform ATC to basically update the flight plan? I vaguely recall this from my PPL training about 20 years ago (I haven't been current for a long time) but I also never had to fly over international waters where I'd imagine you can't radio anyone so I don't know that that works.
The pilots have ipads and internet connections... can't they just have it check e.g. flightaware or similar tool for nearby aircraft and keep them alerted if something is getting too close?
Wouldn't that make it an announced war? I mean, technically a NOTAM doesn't declare the intention of a war. But one under the current circumstances is not just an unofficial declaration of a war, it's also an invitation to search that area. An aerial refueler isn't that hard a target to find either.
"Outrageous" is an understatement. Why does it always seem like military aircraft get a free-pass to break FAA regulations, communicate with no one when in shared airspace, and endanger the lives of everyone in civilian aircraft without any repercussions? This isn't the first time something like this has happened, and it doesn't always end in a near-miss.
An aerial refueler flying so close to Venezuela [1] can't have been there with the best intentions. I don't think that they're too keen on advertising their presence or whereabouts.
I know that some here absolutely hate any suggestions that the US military is capable of any evil. But you're getting very sanitized news. Even otherwise, they have already murdered 80+ Venezuelan civilians in international waters and we don't even know if they were actually guilty of drug trafficking, since those were extra-judicial executions. And at least two of them were murdered in a double tap attack, which is an international war crime, regardless.
[1] It was Curaçao to be precise, but it's still oddly close to Venezuela.
> An aerial refueler flying so close to Venezuela can't have been there with the best intentions. I don't think that they're too keen on advertising their presence or whereabouts.
Which is precisely why they should avoid flying INTO civilian aircraft.
Imagine if that refueler had stayed away from the JetBlue, we wouldn't be talking about it ;-)
Maybe I am thinking about this the wrong way so please correct me if I am wrong.
1. The civilian planes fly on pre published routes and communicate with air traffic controllers in plain text
1. Any covert military operation has access to these plans
1. I understand that there may be reasons why military planes might want to fly undetected but given they know where the civilian planes are and where they are flying, it should be trivial for the military ships and planes to avoid those areas.
> 1. The civilian planes fly on pre published routes and communicate with air traffic controllers in plain text
That's called a flight plan. It's just a declaration of intent, so that the ATCs know that you're expected. There are many valid reasons for deviating from the flight plan. For example, technical difficulties, bad weather, last minute diversions etc. That makes it very unreliable to predict the aircraft's location. You have to rely on your radar instead. The Military has some of the best radars around - especially on AEW&CS aircrafts and ships that stay close to conflict zones at all times.
> 1. I understand that there may be reasons why military planes might want to fly undetected but given they know where the civilian planes are and where they are flying, it should be trivial for the military ships and planes to avoid those areas.
Did you know that the Ronald Reagan Intl airport (DCA) saw one 'close call' between a civilian airliner and a military helicopter every month for the 13 year period from 2011 to 2024? [1]. That's close to 150 near disasters in total, for consecutive months for more than a decade! This is ridiculous!
Clearly, it's not a question if they can stay clear to avoid an incident. It's a question of if anyone cares at all.
[1] https://www.npr.org/2025/03/11/nx-s1-5324543/ntsb-dca-mid-ai...
If they deviate from their flight plan, don't they have to at least inform ATC to basically update the flight plan? I vaguely recall this from my PPL training about 20 years ago (I haven't been current for a long time) but I also never had to fly over international waters where I'd imagine you can't radio anyone so I don't know that that works.
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The pilots have ipads and internet connections... can't they just have it check e.g. flightaware or similar tool for nearby aircraft and keep them alerted if something is getting too close?
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https://www.flightaware.com/live/flight/JBU1112/history/2025...
https://old.reddit.com/r/aviation/comments/1pm83dv/pilots_re...
https://youtu.be/bUcs1LCjhcs
Track log here
https://www.flightaware.com/live/flight/JBU1112/history/2025...
You can see the rate of climb change from 2000 feet per minuteto 220 feet per minute before resuming.
If we're going to have an unannounced war we should at least file NOTAMs.
Wouldn't that make it an announced war? I mean, technically a NOTAM doesn't declare the intention of a war. But one under the current circumstances is not just an unofficial declaration of a war, it's also an invitation to search that area. An aerial refueler isn't that hard a target to find either.
Even Iran and Israel filed NOTAMs during their war in June
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JetBlue pilot calls incident ‘outrageous’ and says US military refueling tanker didn’t have transponder turned on
"Outrageous" is an understatement. Why does it always seem like military aircraft get a free-pass to break FAA regulations, communicate with no one when in shared airspace, and endanger the lives of everyone in civilian aircraft without any repercussions? This isn't the first time something like this has happened, and it doesn't always end in a near-miss.
> military aircraft get a free-pass to break FAA regulations
Because FAA regulations literally do not apply to military aircraft. FAA regulates civilian aviation.
An aerial refueler flying so close to Venezuela [1] can't have been there with the best intentions. I don't think that they're too keen on advertising their presence or whereabouts.
I know that some here absolutely hate any suggestions that the US military is capable of any evil. But you're getting very sanitized news. Even otherwise, they have already murdered 80+ Venezuelan civilians in international waters and we don't even know if they were actually guilty of drug trafficking, since those were extra-judicial executions. And at least two of them were murdered in a double tap attack, which is an international war crime, regardless.
[1] It was Curaçao to be precise, but it's still oddly close to Venezuela.
> An aerial refueler flying so close to Venezuela can't have been there with the best intentions. I don't think that they're too keen on advertising their presence or whereabouts.
Which is precisely why they should avoid flying INTO civilian aircraft.
Imagine if that refueler had stayed away from the JetBlue, we wouldn't be talking about it ;-)
1 reply →
I wonder what illegal activities/war crimes the USAF is up to in Venezuela this time?