Comment by arn3n
5 days ago
Wind gusts were reaching 125 MPH in Boulder county, if anyone’s curious. A lot of power was shut off preemptively to prevent downed power lines from starting wildfires. Energy providers gave warning to locals in advance. Shame that NIST’s backup generator failed, though.
Notably, we had the marshal fire here 4 years ago and recently Xcel settled for $680M for their role in the fire. So they're probably pretty keen not to be on the hook again
I guess that explains why they had no qualms shutting down half of Boulder's power with a vague time horizon. After losing everything in my fridge, though, they finally turned it back on today.
Indeed. Losing the contents of (lots of) fridges is cheaper, as a whole, than incidentally burning the countryside. We all ultimately pay for the result no matter what, so that seems like a reasonably-sensible bet.
On the fridge itself: You may find that the contents are insured against power outages.
As an anecdote, my (completely not-special) homeowner's insurance didn't protest at all about writing a check for the contents of my fridge and freezer when I asked about that, after my house was without power for a couple of weeks following the 2008 derecho. This rather small claim didn't affect my rate in any way that I could perceive.
And to digress a bit: I have a chest freezer. These days I fill up the extra space in the freezer with water -- with "single-use" plastic containers (water bottles, milk jugs) that would normally be landfilled or recycled.
This does a couple of things: On normal days, it increases thermal mass of the freezer, and that improves the cycle times for the compressor in ways that tend to make it happier over time. In the abnormal event of a long power outage, it also provides a source of ice that is chilled to 0F/18C that I can relocate into the fridge (or into a cooler, perhaps for transport), to keep cold stuff cold.
It's not a long-term solution, but it'll help ensure that I've got a fairly normal supply of fresh food to eat for a couple of days if the power dips. And it's pretty low-effort on my part. I've probably spent nearly as much effort writing about this system here just now as I have on implementing it.
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they gave days of advanced warning they would do this. there was time to prepare.
For more background on the Marshal Fire of Dec. 2021: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marshall_Fire
tl;dr - the fire destroyed over 1,000 homes, two deaths. The local electrical utility, Xcel, was found as a contributing cause from sparking power lines during a strong wind storm. As a result, electrical utilities now cut power to affected areas during strong winds.
Somewhat interesting that they themselves don't have access to the site. You'd think there would have been some disaster plans put in place?
The disater plan is to have a few dozens stratum 1 servers spread around the world, each connected to a distinct primary atomic clock, so that a catastrophic disaster needs to take down the global internet itself for all servers to become unreachable.
The failure of a single such server is far from a disaster.
For those of us near Boulder, it's urgent.
But the stratum 1 time servers can shrug and route around the damage.
And the disaster plan for the disaster plan is to realize that it isn't that important at the human-level to have a clock meticulously set to correspond to other meticulously-set clocks, and that every attempt to force rigid timekeeping on humans is to try to make humans work more like machines rather than to make machines work more like humans.
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If access to the site is unsafe and thus the site is closed; not having access seems reasonable.
Time services are available from other locations. That's the disaster plan. I'm sure there will be some negative consequences from this downtime, especially if all the Boulder reference time sources lose power, but disaster plans mitigate negative consequences, they can't eliminate them.
Utility power fails, automatic transfer switches fail, backup generators fail, building fires happen, etc. Sometimes the system has to be shut down.
At this time the local power utility shows: Total of 140 outages affecting 24,981 customers. [1]
Remember - the Marshall fire started on December 30, 2021 under similar high wind conditions. [2] 1,000 structures destroyed, two deaths.
[1] https://co.my.xcelenergy.com/s/outage-safety/outage-map
[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marshall_Fire
Maybe this is the disaster plan: There's not a smouldering hole where NIST's Boulder facility used to be, and it will be operational again soon enough.
There's no present need for important hard-to-replace sciencey-dudes to go into the shop (which is probably both cold, and dark, and may have other problems that make it unsafe: it's deliberately closed) to futz around with the the time machines.
We still have other NTP clocks. Spooky-accurate clocks that the public can get to, even, like just up the road at NIST in Fort Collins (where WWVB lives, and which is currently up), and in Maryland.
This is just one set.
And beyond that, we've also got clocks in GPS satellites orbiting, and a whole world of low-stratum NTP servers that distribute that time on the network. (I have one such GPS-backed NTP server on the shelf behind me; there's not much to it.)
And the orbital GPS clocks are controlled by the US Navy, not NIST.
So there's redundancy in distribution, and also control, and some of the clocks aren't even on the Earth.
Some people may be bit by this if their systems rely on only one NTP server, or only on the subset of them that are down.
And if we're following section 3.2 of RFC 8633 and using multiple diverse NTP sources for our important stuff, then this event (while certainly interesting!) is not presently an issue at all.
There are many backup clocks/clusters that NIST uses as redundancies all around Boulder too, no need to even go up to Fort Collins. As in, NIST has fiber to a few at CU and a few commercial companies, last I checked. They're used in cases just like this one.
Fun facts about The clock:
You can't put anything in the room or take anything out. That's how sensitive the clock is.
The room is just filled with asbestos.
The actual port for the actual clock, the little metal thingy that is going buzz, buzz, buzz with voltage every second on the dot? Yeah, that little port isn't actually hooked up to anything, as again, it's so sensitive (impedance matching). So they use the other ports on the card for actual data transfer to the rest of the world. They do the adjustments so it's all fine in the end. But you have to define something as the second, and that little unused port is it.
You can take a few pictures in the cramped little room, but you can't linger, as again, just your extra mass and gravity affects things fairly quickly.
If there are more questions about time and timekeeping in general, go ahead and ask, though I'll probably get back to them a bit later today.
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> And the orbital GPS clocks are controlled by the US Navy, not NIST.
I thought it was US Space Force / Air Force. Was the Navy previously or currently involved?
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Step One of most disaster plans is not to create a second emergency.
Or even just a microsecond emergency.
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But can't NTP server downtime cause a disaster?
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> Wind gusts were reaching 125 MPH in Boulder county, if anyone’s curious.
That's some strong winds! What's causing such strong sustained/gusty winds that long? I'm hearing about this weather phenomenon for the first time.
Yup, here in Jefferson County - roughly 30 minutes south of Boulder County, we were getting wind gusts around 80mph.