Comment by crazygringo
3 days ago
> Windows 95. No upselling services. No automatic updates
Even Windows 95 came bundled with MSN on the desktop which had a paid monthly fee to access. And its lack of automatic updates was a real problem, as you had to manually find the service packs and security patches. The automatic updates in Windows XP were vastly more convenient.
Automatic updates are needed for security. The only era when you didn't need them was pre-Internet. They're not something we want to get rid of.
> Automatic updates are needed for security. The only era when you didn't need them was pre-Internet. They're not something we want to get rid of.
That was true right up until companies started routinely pushing updates that broke things, removed useful features, added user hostile features, or even outright ads. If I have to give up automatic security updates to not have my software get worse on me over time, I will gladly do so. I would rather have security updates and not have the user-hostile stuff, but we seem to be unable to get that, so the next best thing would be no automatic updates at all.
Installing Internet Explorer 4 on Windows 95 opened up the first version of Windows Update, when it started as a web app with some custom ActiveX plugins. Windows 98 was the first time Windows Update had a bundled link in the OS, and shortly after Windows 98 introduced a "Critical Update" notification that would prompt users to open Windows Update.
Automatic updates arrived in Windows ME.
It's interesting the timeframes on Windows are often earlier than you think they are. Admittedly, a lot of users skipped Windows ME and its strange reputation, so Windows XP may have been their first time seeing automatic updates.
I know you won't believe me, and my precious karma score may suffer by stating reality: you don't NEED security updates. A properly hardened server with no patches will outlive cobbled together trash library patch over garbage code pasted from ai vibing script kiddies. Would you shake your head in disbelief if I told you 'security patches' are the fix delivered by a dealer to quell your shivers?
Give me functionality updates, cumulative service packs, and the just after BBS days when an exploit discovered in your software meant it was used by no one, anywhere, because we no longer trust your coding or your 'fix'
Nobody's talking about "properly hardened servers" here. We're talking about the OS used on desktops and laptops by everyday consumers, connecting to the Internet across a wide variety of Wi-Fi access points.
Do you not see the constant stream of zero-day exploits coming out for consumer operating systems? Do you think those don't need to be fixed?
I'm genuinely curious -- I've never come across anyone with your perspective before, so I'm struggling to understand where it's coming from.
Usually i post and forget but your reasonable reply prompted some effort on my part.
I live life so that at any moment, if modern services of society (food, internet, power, shelter, entertsinment, transport, personal defense) ended, and I was forced to use what I had access to, that my quality of life would persist. Besides physical considerations (hydroponics, solar, guns, hardened vehicles), I maintain nonvolitile backups of the same software I use daily - vanilla(unpatched) OSs from xp to 11), current and older browsers, non-ssl based content and servers, games, music, movies, hoards of older hardware in a cage that may may an emp.. never tested it. Anything computer related I have works from a bare metal install with no internet connection period.
I use the same retail desktop, laptop, wifi, cellular, and wan hardware used by most consumers but only if I can reset and inialize it offline, and can use the built in firewall to restrict outgoing connections to a single executable single port whitelist including my phone. Which means no nags, no updates, no new features, no removed features, no app stores, no federated os logins, no new terms of service, and no telemetry unless I choose to connect that program to the internet and the program is flexible enough to use a single port.
Zero day exploits won't work on my android 11 s9 with no play services, deny all firewall, and non standard chrome build. In app browser updates don't work until I manually install the binary, most AI features are broken by default even on my win11 laptop.
It's not an easy life. But if you insist that software and hardware do what you wish, your actions should back that. My actions probably more than most. I pass on a decent amount of IT gigs because they require app tracking or that I use their monitoring software, or vpn... but everything I have I KNOW I control now and until it stops working and I buy two more identical and grossly obsolete replacements.
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