Comment by markus_zhang
3 days ago
I’m curious what’s the regulation in this scenario? In Canada I think light off means 4-way stop signs so everyone obeys that, or at least most of everyone. What’s the situation in SF?
3 days ago
I’m curious what’s the regulation in this scenario? In Canada I think light off means 4-way stop signs so everyone obeys that, or at least most of everyone. What’s the situation in SF?
Yes, that is the same law in California, but so many people drift through stop signs that the guidance is close to meaningless.
In addition, there are 4-way stop signs all over SF and tourists regularly comment on how they work here.
The law is clear - yield to the right, but that is a pretty slow system in congested roads.
The local custom in SF is that someone is usually obviously first, rightmost, or just most aggressive, and opposing pairs of cars go simultaneously, while being wary about left turns.
Of course pedestrians have right of way in California, so someone in a crosswalk gives implied right of way to the road parallel to the person's crosswalk.
The result is 2x or better throughput, and lots of confused tourists.
So ... with the lights out on a Saturday before Xmas, there was a mess of SF local driving protocol, irritated shoppers, people coming to SF for Xmas parties, and just normal Saturday car and foot traffic.
I thought Waymo did pretty well, but as I said, I didn't see any ones that were dead in the middle of the street..
Is this not how four way stops work everywhere? I live in Kansas and have previously lived in Chicago, and I feel like both places follow this custom. Only thing that’s different is the laws are followed slightly more rigorously in low traffic areas, but the customary rules are definitely still in play.
That's how any relatively busy 4-way stop works in Ohio, too. The law says to do it one way (first to arrive, yield-to-the-right, wait for intersection to clear before entering).
But in practice what happens is an unscripted ballet where other things happen instead, like: Like, 4 cars can turn right simultaneously, and this works fine.
People know it's "wrong," but they also know it works. It's normal, expected, and a bit weird.
The weird part is something I've only ever really observed when I've driven cop cars around the block and had to traverse a 4-way stop. Other drivers stop the ballet immediately and get all timid and stuff -- like they're waiting for me (just someone being a lowly radio tech today, not a cop at all) to give them direction or something. It's bizarre.
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Your local custom seems to describe 4 way intersections everywhere.
I've heard from English and German visitors that 4 way intersections are frequently disambiguated by a concept of priority roads, and they seem surprised by the relatively smaller number of intersections in SF that stop only one of the roads.
>The local custom in SF is that someone is usually obviously first, rightmost, or just most aggressive, and opposing pairs of cars go simultaneously, while being wary about left turns.
This is how it works in most of north america.
Those confused tourists are just making up excuses for being poor drivers.
Yes, I feel the same way about driving in NYC thanks for asking.
I thought the US had a “FIFO” rule for 4 way stop signs? I had to drive through Nevada and Arizona last year so read up on the rules.
Keeping track of which cars entered at what time was kind of stressful and I’m pretty sure I didn’t do a good job of it.
The US has a FIFO rule but it only applies once you reach the stop sign itself, so the FIFO is never very deep. Yielding to the person to your right is the tiebreaker if you get there at exactly the same time.
I have seen an increased number of drivers have no idea how to handle 4-way stops, but the rule is relatively simple in practice.
Thanks, I get the situation is pretty chaos...
Legally in the United States a completely dead traffic signal becomes an all way stop.
Thanks you!
SF drivers mostly don’t stop at stop signs. Many do not stop at red lights either.