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Comment by pinkgolem

1 day ago

I see this comment every year, and I am confused every time.

There was no point in time where ccc or c3 was not an political event/organisation.

56 comments

pinkgolem

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frankzander  1 day ago

this wasn't the point ... the point is that the whole thing is getting more and more political and less technical and fun. I was at the camp and some congresses in the past and they where always fun but nowadays it seems like it's like a political movement event for certain strands and ideologies and way less fun and interesting things (thou there are gems) and it seems that you have to think a certain way or at least accept certain positions even if it's not your position because otherwise you are silly or something else.

  • jasonvorhe  1 day ago

    IMHO, CCC is completely defanged as a political institution. They went along with contact tracing because the local app was open source and somewhat secure and many of the regulars in local spaces people will cause lots of drama if you don't wear a mask in 2025.

    Most local hackerspaces I visited are basically green and leftist queer safe spaces where adults run around with stuffed animals. If that's what you're looking for, great, I'm not judging, it just doesn't click with me. I used to visit hackerpaces during my travels but regardless of how open and kind I approach a new place, once they ask me to mask up or inquire for my pronouns things just don't end well, even if I'm really polite in explaining my position. That's not the tolerance and open mindedness I encountered around 2009 during my first C3.

    Still, I wish everyone attending the best of times. There's so many people there that I imagine you'll be able to find the right folks if you're there and look around.

    Not looking for a debate or inciting hate towards anyone here.

    • meibo  1 day ago

      Culture changes. Hacker culture in Europe changed too, young people are moving up and taking positions in local organizations. You didn't change with it, and you're not open to accepting that change, so you are feeling out of place - that's simply how this works.

      A lot of those people will feel welcomed and will be treated with respect that they don't usually get everywhere else. They decided to embrace that, it comes at a cost - like you feeling weirded out and not showing up - but they're probably fine with that being your problem to figure out.

      4 replies →

    • frankzander  1 day ago

      I can fully relate ... back in the days there wasn't much (at least I don't remember) of "this kind" of ppl and everything was just hacking. However I can imagine what you mean. At the end this growing craziness does not change any time soon so you are right ... "finding the folks that fit you" is maybe the best advice (and this hasn't to be the CCC). Fortunately the interesting talks are often recorded so nobody has to attend who don't want in order to get the interesting stuff.

    • weakfish  1 day ago

      I really do appreciate your willingness to live and let live. Too many people from all perspectives are missing that ability when it comes to non-critical things, and forget that they can just… not hang out with the people they disagree with.

      The other comments below you seem to be willingly ignoring that you did the mature/kind thing and just wished them well and moved on, whereas a less mature person would have caused a ruckus.

      2 replies →

    • slurrpurr  1 day ago

      Really matches my experience. Sometime during covid they really moved off the rails

    • izacus  1 day ago

      Yeah, it's really not wierd that people thinking that using secure technologies, firewalls and privacy to defend against infections on their electronics would also strongly support using a firewall to defend themselves from disease in the physical space.

      The fact that your opinion usually comes together with other incompatible political opinions of folks that's been running those spaces for decades doesn't help either.

      They didn't change. You however became something they always despised.

      6 replies →

    • derriz  1 day ago

      > Most local hackerspaces I visited are basically green and leftist queer safe spaces where adults run around with stuffed animals.

      So what? You’re not being asked or expected to feel empathy - just show tolerance. Which is the easiest virtue to develop - just ignore behavior which doesn’t threaten you.

      If someone is doing their own thing - wearing a MAGA hat, a rainbow t-shirt or carrying a fluffy toy - it doesn’t bother me in the slightest. Why does it bother you unless they’re getting in your face?

      1 reply →

  • izacus  1 day ago

    I've been there like 2 decades ago and even then it was a deeply political event.

    There never a time where German hacker clubs, which are the lifeblood of this event, weren't very political - and very explicitly left wing political.

    • charcircuit  1 day ago

      Even if it was equally or less political than before, it could still be too political for someone that would be worth including.

    • moltopoco  1 day ago

      We might be the same age; I remember that defacing conservative websites was already a C3 thing about 20 years ago. Back then, it felt good to punch up against authoritarianism. Hackers hated Bush and his Patriot Act just as much as many hate Trump now. In Germany, the CDU is of course the perennial enemy.

      But what happens when authoritarianism does not come from the right, but from the left or center? (Not a contradiction: East Germany was an "anti-fascist" totalitarian state as recently as 40 years ago.) Sadly, I think we have been slowly moving in this direction since Covid, where I was genuinely shocked that many of my "leftie" friends had turned into government drones (from my perspective), while they were deeply disappointed that I was now a "right-winger" (from their perspective).

      The more aware they become of how unpopular some of their politics are, the less they believe in democracy as a concept, while I'm still jealous of countries that have proper referendums and freedom of speech. Hate Speech laws are accelerating this divide.

      Anyway, I think that these are the dynamics that are driving many people apart who all simultaneously claim to not have changed in decades. The CCC is still doing a lot of great work, but I do feel it drifting away from me because it is not so much about punching up than about punching right.

      2 replies →

slurrpurr  1 day ago

The comment is about how political it is, and that it's getting too much. For example this talk: https://fahrplan.events.ccc.de/congress/2025/fahrplan/event/...

Every year the needle gets moved more