Comment by copirate
2 months ago
> If a pool can set up a situation where they mine a block and wait X seconds to reveal it, they can force other miners to waste X seconds of has power and gain an advantage.
How is it wasted if they work on the current chain? If they find a block during those X seconds, they'll propagate it before the waiting pool does. The waiting pool will then just lose the revenue from the block they put on hold. They're the ones wasting mining time when that happens, while the others never do.
If you mine a block without revealing it, not only are you the only one that can mine the next block after that, but everyone is mining on the "wrong head". There's of course the risk that someone finds a different head in the meantime, but otherwise, you waste competitors' resources, while you get an advantage on the next block.
What makes it more likely that your first block ends up the next head and you're not wasting your own time on the second one if someone beats you to the first one while you're holding off?
For an arbitrary block, nothing.
It doesn't have to be arbitrary. You know when a block was "lucky" and you found it ahead of average by a given percentile. You leverage those blocks.
They are not mining on the wrong head. They are mining on the current head. If they find a block it will be accepted as the new head and the withheld block will be rejected, so it's not wasted mining time at all.
Not an expert, but I have two thoughts:
1. They don't have to wait until another miner finds a block, they can just wait "for some time" and then release their block. All that time gives them the edge for the next block.
2. My understanding is that if two different blocks are found concurrently for the same head, then the network waits for the next block to select which "new head" is accepted. I.e. when there are competing chains, the longer chain wins. So I could imagine that a strategy could be to wait until some other miner announces their block and release yours precisely at that time, hence creating two competing chains. But you presumably have an edge because you have already been mining for a while on top of your block.
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You can determine statistically whether you have found a block relatively early, and conversely whether other miners are unlikely to find one soon.
So you can get a head start on the next block from the likely new head block you've found.
It only works on average of course, you might be the one wasting resources if someone else published a block while you're withholding yours, but the trick is for you to gain an edge on average.
Now what happens if everyone is doing that calculation? That's where you need to do the game theory analysis (which I haven't and don't claim to understand).
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Right, but the odds of this happening is small(ish) - I'm certain there is a sweet spot for witholding time. If they don't find a block within the time interval, then effectively all the work for that time is "wasted" by the other participants since it could not have been put on the chain anyway AND the witholder has a headstart of a couple of seconds searching for a new block.
Wasting time would mean not receiving the rewards if they find a block. But that's not the case here. If they find a block within the time interval, they get the rewards (and the withheld block is discarded).
the odds depend on how much hash power you have. if you're at 5% of the network you can wait longer than if you're at 1%. the other really big problem here is it creates incentives for miners to work together to be able to delay longer
I might be wrong but I think it's like this..
A finds a block after 1 minute, then powers off and waits for another minute. They reveal the block after 2 minutes.
B searches for the block for 2 minutes.
After 2 minutes, A has used 1 minute of their compute, and B has used 2.
In this case A would be at an advantage to spend the 2 minutes looking for the next block. If they happen to find another block quickly they could release then in quick succession.
The benefit there is that if another miner released a block before that 3 minutes this miner still can release their first block and has already spent 2 minutes working on a block that could better validate their first block now that there are competing chains.
But the time spent by B is not wasted. If they find a block between minute 1 and 2, their block will be accepted, and A just lose the reward of the block they found.
When you reveal a block, it's not accepted instantaneously. When two competing blocks are revealed "roughly at the same time", it ends up in two competing chains.
If B finds a block between minute 1 and 2, they start working on their competing chain, but A is already working on theirs. And A had a headstart because it started working on it somewhere between minute 1. So it's more likely that A's fork wins the race in the end.
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