Comment by kennywinker
12 hours ago
> as captured by their slogan, "from the river to the sea Palestinians will be free"
The mental gymnastics required to make a call for freedom into a call for war are astounding. If i say “free tibet” does that mean i want war with china? What part of “free” is a threat to the people of israel?
> despite that they launched the war first every single time
This is such weird playground-like defense - “They started it!!!”. The actions and stated intentions of israel leading up to the 1948 war are pretty easy to see as a declaration of war - claiming other people’s land as part of your state. And then later Oct 7th is often portrayed as hamas “starting it”. But there were over a thousand gazans held by israel without charges on oct 6th. If israel is justified in murdering 80,000 for the hostages taken in oct 7th - is hamas’ attack not justified by their people held by israel?
To be clear, i’d say in both cases the murder of civilians was unjustified, but i don’t see how one can be justified while the other isn’t.
I assume that you are engaging in good faith, therefore I will respond.
On the meaning of Palestine will be free, don't westplain the Palestinians by reading your interpretation into their mind. Instead, listen to what they actually said.
https://youtu.be/w4iGFT9Yl9o?si=oWKWAUzlMSec4n67
A lot of misunderstanding about Israel stems from people not reading the situation as it is, ie: listening to what both sides actually say, instead, they are listening to their own projections of the Jews and the Palestinians.
And your take that on Oct 6 Israel held thousands of Gaza doesn't explain why Israel would unilaterally pull out from GAZA in 2005, which is just another way of saying that it's likely to be false.
I’ve encountered online MANY israelis calling for gaza and the west bank to be destroyed and every palestinian to be killed or kicked out. Does that mean every israeli believes that? Knowing what everyone believes takes more than cherry picking the worst beliefs.
Source for the thousands of palestinians held without charges before oct 7th: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinians_in_Israeli_custod...
> In April 2022, there were 4,450 Palestinian security prisoners in Israeli prisons – including 160 children, 32 women, and over 1,000 "administrative detainees" (indefinitely incarcerated without charge)
Source for the data cited in wikipedia: https://www.btselem.org/statistics/detainees_and_prisoners