Comment by fleeting900
2 months ago
> a significant proportion of the people you used to hang out with have kids and disappear off the face of the Earth for two decades.
I’ve been on both sides of this, so I’m going to put this out into the universe:
Your friends with kids still want to see you.
They have a lot to deal with suddenly. They’re exhausted.
But they miss hanging out with you, and will leap at the opportunity to hang out if you take the initiative and make some kid-friendly accommodations.
They may decline more often than before, because the kid is sick or sleeping or not sleeping so the adults just need to lay low. But don’t take that “no” as a “stop asking”.
Part of it is the uncomfortable fact that it is not very much fun to spend time with people who have small children -- it's hard to have a real conversation for more than a few minutes, and if you yourself don't have kids, what their life revolves around right now (daycare, finding a kindergarten, etc) is just not going to be very interesting.
> the uncomfortable fact it is not very much fun to spend time with people who have small children
This is (obviously?) not a fact. I’ve had a blast hanging out with a family in Peru for the last 24 hours. I also always have a great time when I visit my sister, her husband and their little kid.
Long conversations about interesting topics are one way to have fun. And you’re right, those don’t happen as much if you just take a child free couple, some parents and maybe kids and put them in the same room.
Bigger get togethers help a lot. One kid is a handful, but six kids of varying ages can actually be easier. You can also have fun in other ways like dancing, decorating or lighting fireworks (one activity from last night).
Kids are at least as interesting as having to take care of any other living things. As strange as it may seem, if you can ask questions about someone's multiple aquariums, their cats or dogs, their horses or cows, then there's at least, probably more to ask about their children. I don't understand how raising a child can be anything but interesting. Every parent I speak to about having kids has such different philosophies, values, goals, and they're so interesting to learn about. Once the kids can talk, they themselves have so much to say!
Raising kids has to be one of the most interesting things someone can do.
Totally. If you find LLMs interesting imagine how interesting actual growing and developing intelligence is.
Eh, to an extent. But on any given day kids are usually in some phase where they only want to talk about dinosaurs or Micky Mouse or something. It gets repetitive after an hour.
I like playing with kids for a while but I won't pretend it is intellectually stimulating. Sometimes you can find something new to blow their mind though.
When they get to teen years they are capable of more interesting conversations but then often don't want to hang with adults. There is a pretty limited sweet spot of ages.
I’m not going to comment on whether I think you’re right or wrong, your opinion is legitimate.
But just to note that this and similar opinions in the thread confirm what I’ve experienced, both as a SINK/DINK and as a parent.
More often than not it’s the SINKs/DINKs that disappear off the face of the earth and lose interest in participating in the suddenly very different lives of their new parent friends, and not the other way around.
Imagine being in that "not very fun" zone continuously, day and night, for decades.
That's kind of what having kids is like. I love my kids and have great times with them, but there's also a lot of routine, endless cleaning and boredom.
People with kids probably wish they could have longer conversations. They'd happily talk about things other than kids. Sometimes that's possible - but it's very hard to predict when it will happen.
It's something I've observed since having kids - quite a lot of people I have adult relationships with simply have no interest in being near them. As a result, I just don't talk to them at all any more. It's a shame, but there's not really much I can do about it.
That’s because there is a lot of routine chores and boredom to life regardless of whether you have children.
Having kids for most people means LESS boredom, as kids are more interesting and curious and active than most adults.
I agree to some extent, but in my experience it differs a lot between kids how doable having a conversation is
It’s incredibly sad that this pathetic attitude is so wide spread.
Kids are generally much more interesting people to engage and interact with than adults.
This is so true, and it is so crazy that the __majority of single people__ are so lacking empathy to at least understand this simple scheduling arithmetic.
That led me to quite radical thoughts, that childless people shouldn't have the same voting power as active parents, just because they simply do not and _can not_ understand the generational mechanics of society and nations survival. They just lack this critical extremum of life experience and can not contribute consciously.
> Your friends with kids still want to see you.
If you both have kids, then the kids may also want a chance to socialize. Meeting new people with their parent is a great opportunity to expand their social network and learn how they should act in front of friendly people.
Of course, the parent needs to be smart about it to avoid or correctly correct the negative sides, but assuming you're a good parent, a well-socialized kids will grow up differently in many better ways than a completely home-breed one.
There's a reason it takes a village to raised a child. He idea of only a single pair of adults should be responsible for raising an entire human being is one of the most unhinged developments of the modern era.
For our entire history we used to live in tribes. One person can look after 5 children with only a small extra % of the effort it takes to look after one. Hell maybe even less effort because the kids will keep each other company, and the adult only has to make sure the kids don't kill themselves. The older kids will naturally take charge and the younger kids tend to follow their older-brother figures.
It can still be done today. Children-having adults gather, bringing their children along. The children will be happy because friends to play with. Adults will be happy because socialization + taking a break from entertaining child. You can even play DND or something.
It's so obvious, so simple, so rewarding, but we still somehow fucked it up.
And the kid friendly accommodation might simply be going to their house and hang out.
I honestly don't enjoy hanging out with people who don't have kids anymore. Our lives have diverged so much that we rarely have much in common.
Yeah, there's really not much that a single 45-year old guy has in common with a 45-year old whose married with kids. Maybe on paper they may appear to have similar jobs, live in similar places, etc. but they are on vastly different life paths with completely different interests (personal, political, social, etc.).
If you look for the holes in the cheese you will find them.
Interesting conversations and connections are with those people who are different from yourself, not with those who share the same experience of everything.
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If you focus on the differences that’s all you’ll see.
The opposite applies too, if you try hard enough you’ll find plenty of similarities with an Eskimo. We’re all just people in the end.