Comment by piva00
6 days ago
My parents aren't all powerful, it's not a remotely close analogous to the force supposedly responsible for everything there is.
Soul-making theodicy uses one of those cheap cop outs: suffering is necessary because humans need to learn.
Basically all defences use the cheap excuse "you don't understand because you are human", leaving no logical argument left for us to find and requiring just to accept that the all-loving being creates suffering for reasons we cannot know. Which, again, is sadistic.
At this point, I find it interesting that for never mentioning what religion I follow, and for merely suggesting that prayer may be beneficial; your reaction is stronger than if I had simply blamed speaking to crystals at 2 AM after 5 glasses of wine in an attempt to manifest a job. If I had even suggested going to a My Little Pony Convention in an attempt to do networking, you would’ve scoffed less, which hardly implies good faith even with yourself.
Also, your arguments are hardly original. They are 2,300 years old, originating with Epicurus, older than both Christianity and Islam. Regurgitation of them with such certainty is Reddit 2013-era levels of uninspired; as though both religions did not address these arguments from their foundation. I also find it astoundingly arrogant, because it implies that religious people have never witnessed or endured intense suffering, lest it be self-evident.
> your reaction is stronger than if I had simply blamed speaking to crystals at 2 AM after 5 glasses of wine in an attempt to manifest a job. If I had even suggested going to a My Little Pony Convention in an attempt to do networking, you would’ve scoffed less, which hardly implies good faith even with yourself.
It would be the same, in real life I have a social circle that includes quite a few woo-woo people (crystals, manifestation, etc.), and I challenge them the same way I did with you. I came from a country with many superstitions which heavily impact daily life, I don't care when people keep their beliefs and superstitions for themselves, as their own means to cope with life. I actually feel if it's helpful it's a net-positive.
I don't tolerate people who approach this as a truism and try to use their personal experiences with their spiritual practices to bring others into the fold.
> Also, your arguments are hardly original. They are 2,300 years old, originating with Epicurus, older than both Christianity and Islam. Regurgitation of them with such certainty is Reddit 2013-era levels of uninspired; as though both religions did not address these arguments from their foundation. I also find it astoundingly arrogant, because it implies that religious people have never witnessed or endured intense suffering, lest it be self-evident.
I didn't say they are original, and I don't present them as such at all. They still hold the same value, the addressing of these arguments is a thought-terminating cliche, they don't allow any logical system to challenge them because they are unfalsifiable truisms. That's the absolute cheap part of them, and in my opinion don't address at all the failures (because I reject the truism which they are based upon). If you believe them, it's yours to take but don't impose it for the non-believers because it requires exactly that: for you to be a believer. No logic in that, no way to be challenged.
You can keep your spiritual practices to the point it doesn't affect my reality, the moment you state that your God/entity is responsible for changing the world then it affects my reality, and you are arrogant in not considering that. If your God is real you can't know, by definition, since you are human, imperfect, incomplete, and by your own theisms incapable of knowing, so I don't understand why the need to impose unto others. Keep it to yourself, superstition has its place in your personal life.