Comment by JCattheATM
4 days ago
> All data are safe
This simply isn't the case. Any data in the VM is vulnerable if the VM has a vulnerability allowing exfiltration.
> Give me your actual threat model.
A vulnerability in the VM allowing exfiltration.
> 100% security never existed and never will.
Then why did you suggest Qubes as a 100% secure OS?
Are you now admitting you were wrong to do so?
> Security through correctness never worked and never will.
Security clearly isn't your area of expertise. Security through correctness is indeed a solution to many/most threats.
> Compartmentalization is the only viable approach.
Hardly. It can help, but at most it's a workaround.
>> Give me your actual threat model.
> A vulnerability in the VM allowing exfiltration.
Thanks, now we can talk technically without accusations.
> Any data in the VM is vulnerable if the VM has a vulnerability allowing exfiltration.
Qubes OS has a possibility to open any file in a dedicated, offline, disposable VM, for reading or for editing [0]. The original VM will not get compromised because it never touches the file. The disposable VM will not allow exfiltration, since it has no network (with the correct configuration).
There is a reason why this OS is chosen for SecureDrop Workstation [1].
> Then why did you suggest Qubes as a 100% secure OS?
There is nothing 100% in this world. Qubes is as close to 100% secure as possible. People often use imprecise expressions for things they wish existed. This is what I expected from your comment.
> Security clearly isn't your area of expertise. Security through correctness is indeed a solution to many/most threats.
Indeed, it is not my area. However it is the area of well-known security professionals whose opinion I trust [2].
[0] https://doc.qubes-os.org/en/latest/user/how-to-guides/how-to...
[1] https://workstation.securedrop.org/en/stable/
[2] https://blog.invisiblethings.org/2008/09/02/three-approaches...
> Thanks, now we can talk technically without accusations.
That was always within your control.
> The disposable VM will not allow exfiltration, since it has no network
Sure, unless you're doing something in the disposable VM that requires network traffic, like browsing.
> Qubes is as close to 100% secure as possible.
No, it isn't. It lacks numerous protections. It serves a purpose against certain threatmodels, but it's far from being close to 100% secure. Like I said, it's essentially a workaround.
> There is nothing 100% in this world.
So you agree Qubes is not a 100% secure OS like the other poster was asking for, correct?
> However it is the area of well-known security professionals whose opinion I trust.
None of them are claiming it is as close to 100% secure as possible. No security expert would. Not even a security hobbyist would. It's a nonsense claim.
>> The disposable VM will not allow exfiltration, since it has no network
> Sure, unless you're doing something in the disposable VM that requires network traffic, like browsing.
This is called goal shifting. Anyway, in this case Qubes can also save you. You browse untrusted websites in a disposable VM, which doesn't contain anything sensitive. You move any downloaded untrusted files to a dedicated storage VM and never open them there without another, dedicated disposable VM.
You browse trusted websites in another, more trusted VM. More details: https://doc.qubes-os.org/en/latest/user/how-to-guides/how-to...
> It lacks numerous protections. It serves a purpose against certain threatmodels, but it's far from being close to 100% secure. Like I said, it's essentially a workaround.
I challenge you to provide me with a threat model that is not covered with Qubes. You couldn't yet. You can call it a workaround, but it's the only approach that actually works today and in the visible future.
> So you agree Qubes is not a 100% secure OS like the other poster was asking for, correct?
The poster is asking for a fairy-tale. I suggested something realistic that solves the problem instead.
> None of them are claiming it is as close to 100% secure as possible. No security expert would. Not even a security hobbyist would. It's a nonsense claim.
I also don't. But you seem to be seeking 100% security, don't you?
> That was always within your control.
I wasn't talking about my own words.
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