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Comment by dust42

5 days ago

> It is nanoprinted and trivially scalable.

Nanoprinted snakeoil - infinitely scalable. Good enough to grab 3M€ public grants and some more from gullible private investors.

Honestly, if they had the tiniest proof of their claims (400Wh/kg, 5min 0-100%, operating temp -30°C to 100°C, no Li/Co/Mn and somebody looking at the production and taking the output to the test) they would be absolutely drowned in money to the point that sama would become jealous.

> Factory in Finland, started around Q3/2025. https://yle.fi/a/74-20180376

That is only a picture of a factory building. They are 100% greenwash grant grabbers with no real substance. There are plenty of these people in Europe. The motorcycle is likely in China designed and produced.

If grant grabbing is what you'd consider a fulfilling life, then come to Europe - it will be an El Dorado for you.

17 comments

dust42

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zooweemama  3 days ago

This is an honest question for my understanding: how would a scam like this work? Take investor money and spend it on yourself? Or give yourself an outrageous salary?

  • dust42  3 days ago

    I wouldn't call it an outright scam. But yes, you pay yourself a nice salary, travel around the world to meet potential OEMs, you may fly in private jets, you stay in fancy hotels, you have business meetings in Michelin star restaurants.

    The motorcycle is real, you can buy it.

    I worked for a company in Germany in 2024 and the CEO was quite open about using public grant money as a free gift. The company wasn't build around it but it was a significant part of income. He made engineers sign papers that they had worked on some AI stuff which they didn't. A demonstrator was made with yolo by an intern. He said they have just no competency to figure that out and also that they actually don't want to figure it out.

    Or look at the EuroLLM: sounds good on paper, never heard about it again. Grant grabbing is a real industry in Europe with companies specialised on creating grant applications and forming consortiums.

    • aeonfox  1 day ago

      > The motorcycle is real, you can buy it.

      Pretty major point of difference though isn't it? They claim this will be out there in Q1 2026, giving a chance for sceptics and industry professionals to tear it down. If this is really the long con, they'd at least give a little time for the cheques to clear before their wild claims could be assessed?

      The other possibility is that they have very little moat with this new battery tech, because it's so easy to manufacture. Being the first mover might be their only play, and it's only a matter of time before someone else figures it out (or it leaks).

  • glemion43  2 days ago

    They "lie" but it's helping the company to get more money because they basically solved it in the lab.

    Independent of were they are it will Help them to get more money.

    And it either leads to success or firing and lost capital

dm808  5 days ago

https://www.cnvc.org/store/nonviolent-communication-a-langua...

  • dust42  4 days ago

    Here some info about the claim of 600km/344m range of Verge motor cycles as it was said and shown in the video. The website of Verge bikes states the following:

    City estimate 600km: "The city estimate calculated by Verge aims to provide a reasonable approximation of calm stop-and-go riding in an urban environment at low speeds. The estimate assumes a 75 kg rider and ideal riding conditions in terms of temperature, wind and tire pressure. Actual range varies based on exact riding conditions, riding style and other factors."

    Highway estimate 315km: "The highway estimate calculated by Verge aims to provide a reasonable approximation of steady and consistent highway riding at a speed of 90 km/h. The estimate assumes a 75 kg rider and ideal riding conditions in terms of temperature, wind and tire pressure."

    Now: "aims to provide a reasonable approximation" is legalese for "we pulled these numbers out of thin air - they are in no way legally binding".

    For proper testing according to "EU Regulation 134/2014, Annex VII" the website says 'TBC'. This would be legally binding but -surprise, surprise- they haven't yet found time to do it.

    For any practical purpose the range will be between 200km to 250km. Also the bike is not easy to handle due to the high mass distribution to the outside of the wheel.

    Btw, the vendor from Verge motorcycles states in the video 80% charge in "about 10 minutes" instead of 100% in 5min. So which one is true? I stand by my claim that this is marketing for gullible buyers and investors.

    • subscribed  3 days ago

      Out of all the possible angles to attack the product you chose some really weird ones.

      Bike in question: https://gearjunkie.com/motors/verge-motorcycles-ts-solid-sta...

      - range: it's quite.... obvious this is naked and not a sport bike, so the air resistance (or Cx if you prefer) will be very high. Compare any super sport with any naked bike. It's just the profile.

      - charging time/rate: you compare maximum hardware capabilities of the raw battery with a vehicle, set up for longevity. Look, there are reasons I don't charge my 18650 batteries with their maximum 5C current, but at a gentle, slow rate. Virtually all the electric cars have default maximum charge set to 80-90% - not because a car maker lied

      - and finally handling: we have yet to see it tested, an you already categorically claim this bike will not be easy to handle because of the "high mass distribution to the outside of the wheel" - i refer you to the pictures above. Almost all the mass is low or central to the bike. Just perfect. Far from the awkward, top heavy adv bikes some people ride. Also claimed 1000Nm / 130 HP is far beyond the usual beginner segment, so I'd expect experienced riders will handle it easily.

      All in all - maybe your expectations re:battery are true and it's all snake oil. But using the bike as a proof of the falsehood based on your GUESS is not acting in a good faith.

      3 replies →

    • chrsw  4 days ago

      I agree. If this were real, it would be a much bigger deal. They're preying on people's hopes.