Comment by dust42
5 days ago
Here some info about the claim of 600km/344m range of Verge motor cycles as it was said and shown in the video. The website of Verge bikes states the following:
City estimate 600km: "The city estimate calculated by Verge aims to provide a reasonable approximation of calm stop-and-go riding in an urban environment at low speeds. The estimate assumes a 75 kg rider and ideal riding conditions in terms of temperature, wind and tire pressure. Actual range varies based on exact riding conditions, riding style and other factors."
Highway estimate 315km: "The highway estimate calculated by Verge aims to provide a reasonable approximation of steady and consistent highway riding at a speed of 90 km/h. The estimate assumes a 75 kg rider and ideal riding conditions in terms of temperature, wind and tire pressure."
Now: "aims to provide a reasonable approximation" is legalese for "we pulled these numbers out of thin air - they are in no way legally binding".
For proper testing according to "EU Regulation 134/2014, Annex VII" the website says 'TBC'. This would be legally binding but -surprise, surprise- they haven't yet found time to do it.
For any practical purpose the range will be between 200km to 250km. Also the bike is not easy to handle due to the high mass distribution to the outside of the wheel.
Btw, the vendor from Verge motorcycles states in the video 80% charge in "about 10 minutes" instead of 100% in 5min. So which one is true? I stand by my claim that this is marketing for gullible buyers and investors.
Out of all the possible angles to attack the product you chose some really weird ones.
Bike in question: https://gearjunkie.com/motors/verge-motorcycles-ts-solid-sta...
- range: it's quite.... obvious this is naked and not a sport bike, so the air resistance (or Cx if you prefer) will be very high. Compare any super sport with any naked bike. It's just the profile.
- charging time/rate: you compare maximum hardware capabilities of the raw battery with a vehicle, set up for longevity. Look, there are reasons I don't charge my 18650 batteries with their maximum 5C current, but at a gentle, slow rate. Virtually all the electric cars have default maximum charge set to 80-90% - not because a car maker lied
- and finally handling: we have yet to see it tested, an you already categorically claim this bike will not be easy to handle because of the "high mass distribution to the outside of the wheel" - i refer you to the pictures above. Almost all the mass is low or central to the bike. Just perfect. Far from the awkward, top heavy adv bikes some people ride. Also claimed 1000Nm / 130 HP is far beyond the usual beginner segment, so I'd expect experienced riders will handle it easily.
All in all - maybe your expectations re:battery are true and it's all snake oil. But using the bike as a proof of the falsehood based on your GUESS is not acting in a good faith.
> you compare maximum hardware capabilities of the raw battery with a vehicle, set up for longevity. Look, there are reasons I don't charge my 18650 batteries with their maximum 5C current, but at a gentle, slow rate. Virtually all the electric cars have default maximum charge set to 80-90% - not because a car maker lied
But that is exactly what the CEO claims in the video [1]: "This pack charges in as low a 5min and is still build for longevity [Video shows time lapse of charging from 0%-100%]. You can fast charge every single day for years. [...] It is designed for 100,000 cycles"
Especially for motorcycles that definitely would be a game changer: 5 minute stop to top up to 100% while stretching your legs...
And the guy from Verge Motorcycles says: "A new long range version delivering up to 600km of real world range."
[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y-aPS2AwMbc @ 10:54 the 600km statement @ 12:59 the talk about the charging
> 100% in 5 min
Fair, I was wrong to pick up on that particular one given the above, my apologies, however I'd expect bikes and cars to be set up to charge less and slower anyway.
And I agree for a bikes it would be a game changer. Currently I wouldn't take electric for a few hundred miles ride, too much hassle, but I'd absolutely love the scenario you picture.
Concerning range though, I think their estimate is pretty fair as far as the marketoid speech goes -- it can be 600 km, even though no one will be buying this bike to commute exclusively within city limits while much cheaper moped would be better.
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I agree. If this were real, it would be a much bigger deal. They're preying on people's hopes.