Or a good one, forcing governments to have robust infrastructure that this info isn't useful. Similar reasoning as with security and open source software.
Yeah, and it’s not like the enemy would take the information from here, they already have it and likely even more detailed. It is quite basic stuff to have when preparing to defend (or attack).
Berlin, Germany just had a blackout because a left from centre organisation decided to set an electric exchange on fire. Right over new years and at a very cold time of year.
Apparently the data on where the exchange was and how it would affect the surrounding neighbourhoods was openly available. The neighbourhoods affect were largely affluent.
It’s probably also the reason why this is being reshared.
You can drive around an area you’re interested in, or look at satellite or aerial photos, to find these facilities. “Security by obscurity” is no more useful here than it is in software systems.
One can see easily make out the power station Lichterfelde and the affected substation inside of it. The area to the east of the power station was without power between Saturday and Thursday morning.
So what? The benefits of openly sharing this info greatly outweight the risks.
I heard multiple times that professionals in the energy sector relied on shitty, difficult to obtain and incomplete information until the open source revolution.
Soviet Union heavily edited publicly available maps, although it had great cartography for the military-industrial complex. And where it is now?
Have I said that it's bad or good? I was just pointing out that yes, apparently data like this does get used in for bad things. I am not judging, as you seem to assume, I'm pointing out.
It's a pity that others aren't as broad minded to consider both or all sides of technology. Technology isn't always automatically an improvement of the current situation. Yes it might solve the obvious problem but there are also side effects. Social media, for example, is a good demonstration of a bunch of side effects that weren't intended.
And so it is with open infrastructure, it can have unwanted side effects and we should be aware of those instead of hand waving them away. Mitigation here is difficult: open access and meshing up of data is important and should be encouraged. Hiding this data away won't help.
Or a good one, forcing governments to have robust infrastructure that this info isn't useful. Similar reasoning as with security and open source software.
Yeah, and it’s not like the enemy would take the information from here, they already have it and likely even more detailed. It is quite basic stuff to have when preparing to defend (or attack).
Most of this physical infrastructure is trivially identifiable in Google Maps.
someone having ability to precisely target other country likely would not be stopped much by need to find power plants themselves
while such open data has also positive effects
have you considered both? it is not like deleting power plant from single map would hide it
disclaimer: I am OpenStreetMap contributor
Berlin, Germany just had a blackout because a left from centre organisation decided to set an electric exchange on fire. Right over new years and at a very cold time of year.
Apparently the data on where the exchange was and how it would affect the surrounding neighbourhoods was openly available. The neighbourhoods affect were largely affluent.
It’s probably also the reason why this is being reshared.
You can drive around an area you’re interested in, or look at satellite or aerial photos, to find these facilities. “Security by obscurity” is no more useful here than it is in software systems.
You can also just randomly nuke a country or invade it for its resources.
Or poison the internet with AI generated garbage.
There are many alternatives to acting nefariously, this is just one.
Security by obscurity is actually useful, to some degree.
The location of the recent blackout is here: https://openinframap.org/#12.98/52.43214/13.26948
One can see easily make out the power station Lichterfelde and the affected substation inside of it. The area to the east of the power station was without power between Saturday and Thursday morning.
> The area to the east of the power station
s/east/west/
(I.e., the area left of the power station.)
So what? The benefits of openly sharing this info greatly outweight the risks.
I heard multiple times that professionals in the energy sector relied on shitty, difficult to obtain and incomplete information until the open source revolution.
Soviet Union heavily edited publicly available maps, although it had great cartography for the military-industrial complex. And where it is now?
So what?
Have I said that it's bad or good? I was just pointing out that yes, apparently data like this does get used in for bad things. I am not judging, as you seem to assume, I'm pointing out.
It's a pity that others aren't as broad minded to consider both or all sides of technology. Technology isn't always automatically an improvement of the current situation. Yes it might solve the obvious problem but there are also side effects. Social media, for example, is a good demonstration of a bunch of side effects that weren't intended.
And so it is with open infrastructure, it can have unwanted side effects and we should be aware of those instead of hand waving them away. Mitigation here is difficult: open access and meshing up of data is important and should be encouraged. Hiding this data away won't help.
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