Comment by cyberax
3 days ago
> a place where people don't want to live will naturally have lower prices than a place where they do.
But that's not true, is it? Most people in the US want to live in suburban SFHs, yet they are often forced to live in apartments. But that's not a viable option for them because the jobs are only available in dense cities.
> It kind of sounds like when you're talking about reducing the density of a city, you're actually referring to keeping the density of the city the same, and building SFHs in places that aren't the city
Correct.
> which actually increases the density of those non-city places
And technically increases the housing price there from zero to some value, just as predicted :)
>> a place where people don't want to live will naturally have lower prices than a place where they do.
> But that's not true, is it?
It certainly is: look at the price of housing in New York City, then look at the price of housing in Newark, New Jersey. Many people want to live in the former, but must settle for the latter, due to lack of affordable NYC housing. Then look at the price of housing in Ainsworth, Nebraska: Even cheaper, because people want to live there even less.
Or look at your own example: People want to live in Tokyo more than they want to live 3-4 hours outside of Tokyo, hence the pricing for the latter is lower.
> Most people in the US want to live in suburban SFHs, yet they are often forced to live in apartments.
In my experience, most people in the US want lots of square footage within the city, and either settle for suburbia to get the square footage they want, or settle for less square footage to get the city living they want. This goes for both renters and buyers, and for both Single- and Multi-Family Housing.
How, then, would increasing the price of in-city housing (by reducing the supply, by replacing denser housing with less-dense housing) allow people to realize their big-city-big-living desires?
Alternatively, how would building housing hours and hours and hours outside the city (where pricing illustrates people don't want to live) allow people to realize their big-city-big-living desires?
> Many people want to live in the former, but must settle for the latter, due to lack of affordable NYC housing.
That's because they _have_ to work in NYC. Polls show that something like 80-85% of people in the US would prefer to live in suburbs.
> Then look at the price of housing in say, Cheyenne, Wyoming: Even cheaper, because people want to live there even less.
Well, yes. Land is not scarce in Cheyenne, so housing is cheap. But people don't flock there because they don't have any job prospects in WY. See my notes about remote work.
> Or look at your own example: People want to live in Tokyo more than they want to live 3-4 hours outside of Tokyo, hence the pricing for the latter is lower.
How about: "People HAVE to live in Tokyo, because there are no job prospects outside of Tokyo"?
> In my experience, most people in the US want lots of square footage within the city, and either settle for suburbia to get the square footage they want, or settle for less square footage to get the city living they want. This goes for both renters and buyers.
Well, sure. I would love to live in a mansion with a private lake, in the middle of Union Square.
> How, then, would increasing the price of in-city housing (by reducing the supply, by replacing denser housing with less-dense housing) allow them to realize their big-city-big-living desires?
You assume that people _want_ to live in big cities. People want to have access to big city amenities, but not necessarily live there all the time.
That's why suburbs are such a desirable place. Think about this: what if you live 1 hour away from the city core? This still allows you to easily enjoy all the amenities like theaters and shows. Or to periodically go to your favorite ethnic restaraunt. But it's _way_ too far for daily commutes so it's impractical.
> Land is not scarce in Cheyenne, so housing is cheap. But people don't flock there because they don't have any job prospects in WY
> How about: "People HAVE to live in Tokyo, because there are no job prospects outside of Tokyo"?
How about: people don't want to be located 3+ hours outside the city, and neither do many employers? Being fully-employed in the middle of nowhere is still pretty undesirable. This is borne out in housing prices: the people buying houses in Cheyenne are likely just as employed as the people buying houses in Newark or NYC, and yet the market rate for the former is still much lower.
> That's because they _have_ to work in NYC.
Or, because they want to live in NYC: socialization and meetups and camaraderie around every conceivable interest, innumerable dining options within a matter of blocks, some of the best live entertainment options in the world, friends within walking distance, etc. Case in point:
> I would love to live in a mansion with a private lake, in the middle of Union Square.
The reason you can't have that is the cost, which we're talking about ways to decrease.
> That's why suburbs are such a desirable place
The suburbs are desirable in that they are cheaper: that mansion with a private lake would be cheaper in the suburbs than in the city, so some people choose to settle for the suburbs, while others choose to settle for a less-nice place in the city.
> what if you live 1 hour away from the city core? This still allows you to easily enjoy all the amenities like theaters and shows.
1 hour each-way of driving is a lot, and by then you're usually in a different city. 3-4 hours puts you in a different state, and in some places, it puts you in an entirely different country!
1 reply →