Less than half of Israelis are Askenazi, and unless your solution is to "ethnically cleanse" by sending people back to the countries their grandparents fled, it hardly matters.
Americans and Europeans have the false notion that Israeli Jews are predominantly European. They are not.
While I agree that the land has been taken by force, unfortunately returning the land is no longer an acceptable option.
The land of Israel has been developed in such a way that it has become completely different from what it was one century ago, and there is no doubt that its previous owners could have never succeeded to do a similar development, due to a combination of lacking both the financial means and the skilled labor capabilities.
While I believe that returning the land would be unjust at this time, I also believe that the never-ending war between Israelis and their neighbors can be stopped in only 2 ways, one of which is not acceptable in the modern world and which would bring eternal shame on Israel if they would ever succeed to realize it.
The second option is for Israel to do the same that Israel has demanded and has obtained from states like Germany. This means that Israel should admit that they have occupied the land by force and they should repair this by paying a just compensation to the remaining descendants of the former inhabitants, exactly like Israel has received from countries responsible for the oppression against Jews during WWII.
No land was stolen. All land was purchased before the war. All land taken after wars was taken after wars started by the Arabs.
That's always been the case with nations who lost wars. Germany lost the war and lost land because of it. Should Germany take back land that was "brutally taken from them"?
Or should they maybe just accept that they shouldn't have started the war? The Germans certainly have accepted that.
At some point, all land has been taken either by direct force, or by the threat of force.
All land, everywhere. It is NOT a natural right that anyone owns any land, nor that any countries exist. That is something everyone's ancestors fought each other for and created as a system of human society.
Of course that's written in the past tense. Facing reality rather than the fantasy presented in history books and documentaries; not only did our ancestors do that, it hasn't stopped. The bloodshed still happens today in so many places. Those we might hear about in the news, and others forgotten even in the news because it is considered normal and thus ignored.
We are not yet a species of plenty. Scarcity still exists, at the very least in the real form of land where people want to be.
Most humans can legitimately claim ancestry to the Levant. It's the coast closest to the cradle of civilization.
There is absolutely evil happening in Gaza. But pretending this is black-and-white, from an ocean away, is just alienating. It turns what should be a broad political discussion into a niche issue.
> Most people on the planet view this as a black and white issue. Zionists are the modern day Nazis and I don't see a lot of sympathy for them.
No. Most people see the nuance. There are a small number of extremists (on both sides, granted) who see this as a black-and-white issue requiring extermination.
Less than half of Israelis are Askenazi, and unless your solution is to "ethnically cleanse" by sending people back to the countries their grandparents fled, it hardly matters.
Americans and Europeans have the false notion that Israeli Jews are predominantly European. They are not.
Returning land to the people it was brutally taken from is not “ethic cleansing”. The right of return is still valid.
While I agree that the land has been taken by force, unfortunately returning the land is no longer an acceptable option.
The land of Israel has been developed in such a way that it has become completely different from what it was one century ago, and there is no doubt that its previous owners could have never succeeded to do a similar development, due to a combination of lacking both the financial means and the skilled labor capabilities.
While I believe that returning the land would be unjust at this time, I also believe that the never-ending war between Israelis and their neighbors can be stopped in only 2 ways, one of which is not acceptable in the modern world and which would bring eternal shame on Israel if they would ever succeed to realize it.
The second option is for Israel to do the same that Israel has demanded and has obtained from states like Germany. This means that Israel should admit that they have occupied the land by force and they should repair this by paying a just compensation to the remaining descendants of the former inhabitants, exactly like Israel has received from countries responsible for the oppression against Jews during WWII.
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Do you not understand the irony of what you are saying?
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No land was stolen. All land was purchased before the war. All land taken after wars was taken after wars started by the Arabs.
That's always been the case with nations who lost wars. Germany lost the war and lost land because of it. Should Germany take back land that was "brutally taken from them"?
Or should they maybe just accept that they shouldn't have started the war? The Germans certainly have accepted that.
4 replies →
At some point, all land has been taken either by direct force, or by the threat of force.
All land, everywhere. It is NOT a natural right that anyone owns any land, nor that any countries exist. That is something everyone's ancestors fought each other for and created as a system of human society.
Of course that's written in the past tense. Facing reality rather than the fantasy presented in history books and documentaries; not only did our ancestors do that, it hasn't stopped. The bloodshed still happens today in so many places. Those we might hear about in the news, and others forgotten even in the news because it is considered normal and thus ignored.
We are not yet a species of plenty. Scarcity still exists, at the very least in the real form of land where people want to be.
4 replies →
[flagged]
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> Ashkenazis are Europeans
Okay? So are most American Jews.
Most humans can legitimately claim ancestry to the Levant. It's the coast closest to the cradle of civilization.
There is absolutely evil happening in Gaza. But pretending this is black-and-white, from an ocean away, is just alienating. It turns what should be a broad political discussion into a niche issue.
Most people on the planet view this as a black and white issue. Zionists are the modern day Nazis and I don't see a lot of sympathy for them.
> Most people on the planet view this as a black and white issue. Zionists are the modern day Nazis and I don't see a lot of sympathy for them.
No. Most people see the nuance. There are a small number of extremists (on both sides, granted) who see this as a black-and-white issue requiring extermination.
3 replies →