Indeed. I'm somewhat surprised 'simonw still seems to insist the "lethal trifecta" can be overcome. I believe it cannot be fixed without losing all the value you gain from using LLMs in the first place, and that's for fundamental reasons.
(Specifically, code/data or control/data plane distinctions don't exist in reality. Physics does not make that distinction, neither do our brains, nor any fully general system - and LLMs are explicitly meant to be that: fully general.)
That's not a bug, that's a feature. It's what makes the system general-purpose.
Data/control channel separation is an artificial construct induced mechanically (and holds only on paper, as long as you're operating within design envelope - because, again, reality doesn't recognize the distinction between "code" and "data"). If such separation is truly required, then general-purpose components like LLMs or people are indeed a bad choice, and should not be part of the system.
That's why I insist that anthropomorphising LLMs is actually a good idea, because it gives you better high-order intuition into them. Their failure modes are very similar to those of people (and for fundamentally the same reasons). If you think of a language model as tiny, gullible Person on a Chip, it becomes clear what components of an information system it can effectively substitute for. Mostly, that's the parts of systems done by humans. We have thousands of years of experience building systems from humans, or more recently, mixing humans and machines; it's time to start applying it, instead of pretending LLMs are just regular, narrow-domain computer programs.
Yes, by using the microphone loudspeakers in inaudible frequencies. Or worse, by abusing components to act as a antenna. Or simply to wait till people get careless with USB sticks.
If you assume the air gapped computer is already compromised, there are lots of ways to get data out. But realistically, this is rather a NSA level threat.
Indeed. I'm somewhat surprised 'simonw still seems to insist the "lethal trifecta" can be overcome. I believe it cannot be fixed without losing all the value you gain from using LLMs in the first place, and that's for fundamental reasons.
(Specifically, code/data or control/data plane distinctions don't exist in reality. Physics does not make that distinction, neither do our brains, nor any fully general system - and LLMs are explicitly meant to be that: fully general.)
And that's one of many fatal problems with LLMs. A system that executes instructions from the data stream is fundamentally broken.
That's not a bug, that's a feature. It's what makes the system general-purpose.
Data/control channel separation is an artificial construct induced mechanically (and holds only on paper, as long as you're operating within design envelope - because, again, reality doesn't recognize the distinction between "code" and "data"). If such separation is truly required, then general-purpose components like LLMs or people are indeed a bad choice, and should not be part of the system.
That's why I insist that anthropomorphising LLMs is actually a good idea, because it gives you better high-order intuition into them. Their failure modes are very similar to those of people (and for fundamentally the same reasons). If you think of a language model as tiny, gullible Person on a Chip, it becomes clear what components of an information system it can effectively substitute for. Mostly, that's the parts of systems done by humans. We have thousands of years of experience building systems from humans, or more recently, mixing humans and machines; it's time to start applying it, instead of pretending LLMs are just regular, narrow-domain computer programs.
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You'll also need to power it off. Air gaps can be overcome.
Yes, by using the microphone loudspeakers in inaudible frequencies. Or worse, by abusing components to act as a antenna. Or simply to wait till people get careless with USB sticks.
If you assume the air gapped computer is already compromised, there are lots of ways to get data out. But realistically, this is rather a NSA level threat.
This doesn't apply to anyone here, is not actionable, and is not even true in the literal sense.