Comment by vasco
2 days ago
Airlines shouldn't have reclining seats, it's bad design. Blaming people for the bad design is stupid. I never recline and still blame it on the design. Stupid people exist, you should design for that.
2 days ago
Airlines shouldn't have reclining seats, it's bad design. Blaming people for the bad design is stupid. I never recline and still blame it on the design. Stupid people exist, you should design for that.
Sorry for an empty response but this, 100% this. As a person who is WELL over 6' tall, the very idea that the person in front of me might recline is enough to give me significant anxiety throughout a flight. I once saw a design for seats where the base slides forward if you want to recline - the idea being, if you're going to recline you're going to do so into your own space, not the person behind you. I'd be a big advocate of that change in seat design...
I’m a shade under 2m tall.
If I put my knees together and sit up straight (back hard against my seat), my knees are hard against the seat in front. They can’t recline. It doesn’t even hurt, the seat just won’t move. Last flight someone turned around and complained then complained to the stewardess. I’m not sticking my legs into my neighbours space, am the time I extended into the aisle I fell asleep and got knee capped by a trolley.
‘Where would you like me to put my legs?’
I’m writing this from a plane seat, having paid for extra room and having been bumped by the airline. That’s nz$1000 gone and 17 hours of misery.
Qatar. Never again.
Aside: I also don’t recline without any empty seat or sleeping person behind.
I'm also over 6' and I don't understand the problem? The seats only recline a few degrees, it's not like they're laying on my lap! Even fully reclined there's plenty of space in front of my face, and leg room is barely impacted at all. (Like probably an inch max?)
Granted, I've only flown American and Delta, maybe other airlines are worse in this respect?
I'm 6'4" with a lot of my height in my legs. Sitting comfortably (not slouching, mind you), my knees already barely rub against the seat in front of me. As soon as that seat is reclined, my knees get crushed and I have to either sit up even straighter or twist to the side, neither of which are comfortable. Or, I have to pay to be in a higher fare class with more space.
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Those few degrees matter if your knees are already brushing the back of the seat in front of you. It matters how tall you are, how much of that is in your legs, how big your feet are (the more you need to bend your knees, the higher they will be), and it also varies depending on seat design and layout.
For others like me, one trick is to at most minimally use the under seat storage: small handbags only. No backpacks, briefcases, or anything else big enough to hold a laptop. Then, you can put your feet in that space. This lowers my knees by 1-2 inches depending on the plane, which really matters. It's the only thing that helps significantly, aside from paying for premium economy. Doesn't help with the claustrophobia, but there's not much to be done about that.
The other things I've tried (that don't reliably work) are leaning forward from the seat back (to pull my knees back) and slouching slightly (so that the inevitable recline compresses the seat back into my knees rather than bashing them). The former saves my knees, but sacrifices my back. The latter kind of helps during the flight, but walking will still hurt the next day.
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6ft plus too, I agree with GP, definitely a problem for me when the seat in front reclines.
My legs are proportionately longer than my upper body which increases the negative effect.
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good news: that seat design is available and some airlines use it.
> some airlines use it.
and there lies the rub.
Flights from sfo to Frankfurt bolt upright sound unpleasant…
Not to mention that when my wife was pregnant she could barely manage her back pain -with- the recline, never mind without.
The recline button is there for your use. You are welcome to avail of it yourself.
> You are welcome to avail of it yourself.
Ah, the exact opposite of the "pay it forward" principle...
That's exactly how it usually happens in my experience. I think a lot of people are OK if everyones upright on short haul flights (here most budget airlines don't have a recline facility and it's not missed) but once someone reclines into your space you then recline to gain a little space back and the domino effect takes place even if you're not sleeping.
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> Flights from sfo to Frankfurt bolt upright sound unpleasant
Medium haul flights sound like a dream to us slumming down the bottom of the planet.
At least we have Elon giving us decent wifi now. Doha > Auckland at the moment.
> Flights from sfo to Frankfurt bolt upright sound unpleasant
Same flight with someone's seat resting on your knees is downright painful.
> when my wife was pregnant
Imagine if she was a bit taller and someone reclined the seat all the way over her.
> The recline button is there for your use
You're right, like any shared resource, "space" is there for you to use. It doesn't mean you have to use it, you could try to be aware of your surroundings and assess whether your small comfort should come at the cost of someone else's extreme discomfort. And if you use the button others are also free, and probably correct, to call you a dick. Like a guy who empties the bowl of complimentary candy someone offers to all customers.
You shouldn't need physical blocks or laws to define your own common sense and decency.
I'm 185cm and I couldn't imagine having to endure a long haul flight without reclining.
I never get these discussions. It's only ever online that I see complaints. Almost everyone reclines on long flights. It's normal. It's expected. If it makes you uncomfortable that's a you problem, everyone else seems fine with it. If it makes you physically uncomfortable, pay for extra leg room. Don't make your problem the problem of another passenger.
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So why is the recline button there?
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in reality there should be a legal minimum leg room that's based on the distance of the flight
the recline feature should be baked in to this as well
It's the 21st century. Blowhards of the world united with the miracle of technology are moaning at any attempt of common sense regulation. This will become culture wars material right away.
They would argue that the market would solve the issue.
I think reclining is appropriate at night only. If it were up to me, they would be locked upright during the day.
Night or day is a vague concept on an 11 hour flight
It wouldn't surprise me if Ryanair had reclining seats that reclined only if you paid for it.
I think the secret of Ryanair is that their goal is actually to make their turnarounds as fast and efficient as possible, not explicitly to make money by adding a fee for every little aspect of the service.
If anything can possibly slow down flight boarding, disembarking or cleanup, they'll first try to remove it completely, and only if people object too much will they reluctantly offer it with a fee.
Pocket on the seat back -> most people don't use on short flights -> get rid of them.
Luggage -> most people need this, but not everyone -> charge a fee.
Reclining seat -> most people don't use on short flights -> get rid of them.
They do sell drinks and duty free; that's an interesting one. I guess once the flight is airborne, the flight attendants aren't really doing anything else (from management's perspective) so they might as well sell stuff. Plus the trolley blocking the aisle stops passengers from moving around, which they probably see as a big advantage.
I think this even applies to the ridiculous penalty fees they charge for e.g. trying to check in at the airport rather than doing it beforehand on the app. It feels like they're just trying to rip you off, but I suspect they see it more as a "nudge" to make people check in online, because that streamlines their airport process.
I got a little bit less annoyed by them when I realised this. Sure, it's still uncomfortable and sometimes infuriating, but it's all with the aim of an efficient and reliable service, and they're way better than average at that.
> It feels like they're just trying to rip you off, but I suspect they see it more as a "nudge" to make people check in online, because that streamlines their airport process.
I believe the airline pays the airport for every check in and luggage handling transaction. They are just cutting costs.
That's not (really) it.
Ryanair makes little to no money from passengers, nowadays it's mainly from selling airplanes. They were still profitable during COVID without even carrying passengers at some point, only thanks to their flying school, which thanks to social dumping and the UE, allow them to charge 40k€ per wannabe pilot without even guaranteeing them a hire.
They booked 2000 737max, with their own special version during COVID+MCAS disaster, they paid it dirt cheap.
Then they operate them marginally, and now that the traffic has gone up again and the delay between buying and receiving a Max is about 8 years, they sell them back for a huge profit.
It's been known for ages in the industry.
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I never thought of it this way, but now it's clear.
I found that once I tack on luggage, a seat with more space, etc.. they become more expensive than traditional airlines with the same package.
In other words, their business model really seems to be to cater to the "least hassle" passengers who travel light and don't need any extras.
Great analysis and insight! Thanks for sharing
"Your neighbor is trying to recline, outbid them to stop them..."
One verification can to you, sir, for this chuckle.
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Don't give them ideas!
Shhh. BMW might hear.
Ryanair doesn't have reclining seats at all.
Which means they haven’t found a way to monetize the feature yet!
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This is one thing I like about Ryanair; they don't.
I think that they should just make reclining mandatory