Comment by bflesch
1 month ago
How about instead of taking the easy way out and preserving your wealth you stay in the US and take up your generational responsibility and figure out how to fix the situation that you and your fellow citizens have created?
Same feeling from me. I also disliked his framing of moving his FAANG wealth to outcompete EU workers on jobs and housing, then making it sound like he's doing Europeans a favor with this.
"Yeah guys, I got enough blood money now from ad targeting people in the US, so to clear my conscience I can come give you guys a hand to fight the evil guys I had no issue with when they were paying me big money, but only IF you pay me 50% of what they pay me."
How about thanks but no thanks. We don't need this kind of fake virtue signaling "help". Enjoy your money somewhere else.
Edit: sorry I sound so mean, but it's how I feel.
The fact that the US didn't take your attitude and allowed workers from all over the world to come to Silicon Valley and compete with Americans for jobs and housing ("compete for housing" being the most ridiculous concept I have ever heard of) is one of the many reasons why SV is in the US and not in Europe.
>"compete for housing" being the most ridiculous concept I have ever heard of
How can I have a productive discussion with someone who doesn't know or refuses to acknowledge the reality of housing supply/demand and resulting gentrification?
Gee, if only there was a city in the world that's a big tech hub and we could study the effects on its housing market and citizen who don't work in tech and how they're impacted.
>is one of t many reasons why SV is in the US and not in Europe
I've been to SF and I'm not sure I want the issues I saw there over here.
And to correct you, SV is what it is due to the WW2 and cold war military electronics industry rooted in government spending brewing there instead of being bombed to the ground like Europe, plus the financial engineering leavers of the US FED being able to print virtually gold and use that virtual gold to buy everything they ever need to win including foreign competitors and suppliers while offloading the resulting inflation burden onto the rest of the world, or use trade restrictions and military force as the second option to block any potential rising competitors that threaten the existing hegemony.
SV is in the US because of heavy government spending to further national interests. And US intelligence community was one of the first to realize that total domination of home computers / smartphones / social media allows them to exert a lot of power.
SV took workers from all over the world because these workers were extremely skilled and cheap. They didn't compete with Americans for jobs because there were simply not enough Americans with the needed skills.
Foreign tech workers need housing but they don't own land and can't vote in your elections, so the fact housing is bad is 100% on US citizens.
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lol where are you getting all this from? first of all there are 3 letters in FAANG which don't do ads, second of all i didn't express anywhere that i felt i was doing anyone any favors, third of all are you aware that US citizens are double taxed no matter where they live, where they earn their money, fourth of all are you aware there's an exit tax on your total net worth if you renounce citizenship?
y'all are extra spicy on this topic seemingly.
EDIT:
> We don't need this kind of fake virtue signaling "help"
i wasn't virtue signalling anything - that's why i said money is still an important part of the calculus. i was literally just curious if there were such accelerated pathways for SWEs...
> there are 3 letters in FAANG which don't do ads,
FAANG is Facebook(Meta), Amazon, Apple, Netflix and Google(Alphabet) right?
Facebook and Google are heavy on ads, Amazon has ads all over their shopping experience and in their video product; AWS isn't connected with ads though, Netflix has an ads tier in their video product too, I opted out of Apple so I don't know what ads look like on their products but I think they have a small ads product?
I'm not quite sure why the negative responses to your offer though. Sure, it's a bit mercenary, but it's an offer. Personally, I don't think it's really about personnel though, recruiting FAANG employees to Europe wouldn't generate European FAANGs; Europe needs to look at the business conditions that spawn these kinds of companies and see what they can change to encourage the kinds of companies they want. Why did Apple survive while early computer companies from Europe all folded and also where have all the European handset makers gone; where are the online megaretailers for Europe and why didn't they consider selling their surplus computing resources; why haven't Euro television companies developed a cross border streaming service; maybe something about search engines, maybe what stopped Europe from playing in the search engine wars before Google became dominant; bonus non faang question, why did Europay merge with Mastercard.
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> first of all there are 3 letters in FAANG which don't do ads
They all do ads. Apple is about to add them to their Maps.
https://advertising.amazon.com
https://ads.apple.com
https://advertising.netflix.com/en-us
https://business.google.com/us/google-ads/
https://business.meta.com
https://ads.microsoft.com
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I don't agree with these bitter Europeans at all, but offering to take a 50% pay cut does come off very much like you are trying to do someone a favor.
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I think the point is more that 50% of senior FAANG total comp is still a lot more than you get at most European places.
100-120k net is considered quite a good salary and is unattainable even for most as a contracted employee. You do get benefits like healthcare and pensions which work differently. You can get higher rates if you are good at marketing, but then you need to insure your unemployment and pension yourself as well.
My latest info on Silicon Valley compensation (Google, Netflix, and Twitter) was that 400k/year gross before tax and RSU was typically achievable with even higher regular occurrences. 50% of that is still way over what you typically find here. (Switzerland excluded but all prices are inflated in Switzerland.)
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Moving to another continent isn't a particularly easy way out. It's also more than 99% of people are prepared to do.
So you're trying to say that taking a flight is some sort sacrifice?
Most of the people I know have lived in at least one other country for several months, while most of US citizens not once in their life have left the USA and don't even own a passport.
Imagine people cross continents with just clothes and a backpack while avoiding law enforcement.
When you have a US passport, FAANG on your resume and 6-7 figure net worth, I wouldn't dare complain about difficulty in immigration.
The average person has almost no way of making any serious impact on society, especially in this time period. Besides that, the US was founded by people taking "the easy way out" and leaving another country, so it's only fitting.
Though the commenter mentioned working at a FAANG, so maybe they're far more culpable in this situation than the average person. If that's the case, I'd have to agree with you.
> generational responsibility
It's not generational responsibility. Everyone has at least some responsibility to defend the democratic values, traditions, and nation that have enabled them to live freely and peacefully.
For someone who has greatly benefited from the opportunities the nation afforded them, it's insulting for such a person to behave as if they possess no responsibility to defend the values, tradition, and nation that enabled them to succeed.
It's hard for me to escape how strongly I feel about this. As a European, I don't wish for such sorts of people to immigrate here. They can go back.
LOL my family immigrated to this country from a "shithole" when i was a kid and i've managed to claw my way out of immigrant poverty. i have exactly zero "generational responsibility".
You're getting very emotional about this. Are you a US citizen or not?
Because IIRC in one comment you complained about double taxation for US citizens when living abroad and here you suddenly play the immigrant family card.
It's hard to accept your victim role when you've been personally profiting off a FAANG company.
Bro you people must be mind-readers (or just poor readers) - the guy said I should stay and "fight" because I have "generational responsibility". I said no thanks I have no generations in the US (I am first gen). I am also a naturalized citizen which means the US will tax me bigly when I move abroad no matter who I work for and even renouncing the citizenship will cost me money. I said all this not because I'm a victim but to explain why I'm only willing to take at most a 50% pay cut. Are we clear now?
You don't have any generational responsibility, but not because you are an immigrant. You don't have any because "generational responsibility" is not a thing that exists.
It was the USA that gave you those opportunities to succeed and build wealth, raising you out of poverty. Without you would not in the position you are today, that itself deserves at least some responsibility to defend the nation against those who would tear down and destroy the democratic values, traditions, and institutions that enabled you and people like yourself to live freely and succeed.
Truthfully, as a European, I don't want people immigrating here who feel no responsibility to defend the democratic values, institutions, and nation that enabled them to live freely and succeed. Quite insane.
"fuck you i got mine" a true american indeed
I don’t see what’s wrong with someone wanting to return to their home country instead of staying and risking a middle of the night policy change resulting in their residency status being cancelled and ICE dragging them and their children out of bed at night.
If one must point fingers, a better target is those actually in power.
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you're never gonna be able to convince me that i owe some debt to a country/nation that barely ever tolerated me to begin with, you understand this right? also "i'm leaving" isn't "fuck you" in the least, it's just "i'm leaving".
Nope. Its much easier to carry over bloated wealth/income from a higher CoL country to a lower CoL country to live like kings by gentrifying the locals and creating the same kind of problem that caused him to escape from his country.
That is how the US was screwed up in the first place - the internal inequality and gentrification created all the problems the US is in today, including the social conflicts. People like him are literally helping to export those problems by exporting the misery to other countries.
Translation: "Die fighting in a civil war and maybe we'll grant you a visa".
This is, of course, stupid. You're arguing that if a tyrant king comes around, all of his neighbors should work tirelessly and for free to make sure the tyrant king's subjects remain under their control, so that the tyrant king still has materiel to invade you with. Most people are not in a position to individually resist or rebel against the system. Revolution is a collective concept, and the fish rots from the head. There's no causal link between denying someone a path to emigrate from their hellhole and them actually fixing their broke-ass society. They just wind up becoming a tool for that society to throw at you.
Think of every society like a building made of sentient bricks. If the bricks decide to leave, the building falls apart. But if the bricks are prohibited from leaving, then the building remains standing. Even if America doesn't actually restrict people from leaving (in fact, Trump kinda wants that), offering them no place to go is about the same thing as not letting them leave.
And, to be clear, the rot didn't start with Trump. It started with neoliberalism and the destruction of America's welfare system creating a permanent underclass of scammable peons. That same rot is present in much of the EU for the same reasons. America just succumbed to it first. You're watching a preview of what will happen in your country soon if you do not take immediate corrective action to fix the problem.
We are responsible for your nation's failure to be competitive in this industry? There are many European companies that operate freely in the US, so it is not our laws that are getting in your way. The only thing the US could do to help you here is to use force against your government to remove its self defeating policies, and I don't think you would actually like that very much. Actions have consequences. Every choice is a tradeoff. You will never get anywhere with that blame other people for your problems attitude.