Comment by chii
18 hours ago
> make synthetic fossil fuels from atmospheric CO2.
that would actually be my preferred solution (if only it was less energy inefficient, sigh).
18 hours ago
> make synthetic fossil fuels from atmospheric CO2.
that would actually be my preferred solution (if only it was less energy inefficient, sigh).
If the marginal value of electricity is negative, what matters if it is energy inefficient?
Scale/quantity.
That ‘negative value’ electricity could also be used to do something else. And actually requires a lot of capital to produce. It isn’t actually free, it’s a side effect of another process that has restraints/restrictions.
When the price of a thing is negative, the entity facing the negative price is being paid to consume it.
We don't have enough automatic integration yet to make it happen, but: Residentially, that'd be a great time to charge millions of EVs and raise the temperature of water heaters. It'd be perfect for getting a head start on heating the glass kiln for Monday morning, or to supplement the used railroad ties and other fuels that might be feeding a lime kiln.
It's pretty easy to think of loads that feature scale and/or quantity, and the ability to switch on and off rather quickly. Even if the negative price event only lasts for an hour. (Even if it only lasts 5 minutes.)
It has a negative price precisely because at that given moment, nobody can use it for anything else.
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The problem here is that the production of hydrocarbons, ammonia, etc. from electricity can only make back its high upfront investment when it runs basically 24/7. This is a challenge for renewables.
In China which recently opened a large off-grid green ammonia plant in Chifeng, they use multiple tiers of energy storage to ensure constant electric power availability.