Comment by agentcoops
16 hours ago
I hear your argument, but short of major algorithmic breakthroughs I am not convinced the global demand for GPUs will drop any time soon. Of course I could easily be wrong, but regardless I think the most predictable cause for a drop in the NVIDIA price would be that the CHIPS act/recent decisions by the CCP leads a Chinese firm to bring to market a CUDA compatible and reliable GPU at a fraction of the cost. It should be remembered that NVIDIA's /current/ value is based on their being locked out of their second largest market (China) with no investor expectation of that changing in the future. Given the current geopolitical landscape, in the hypothetical case where a Chinese firm markets such a chip we should expect that US firms would be prohibited from purchasing them, while it's less clear that Europeans or Saudis would be. Even so, if NVIDIA were not to lower their prices at all, US firms would be at a tremendous cost disadvantage while their competitors would no longer have one with respect to compute.
All hypothetical, of course, but to me that's the most convincing bear case I've heard for NVIDIA.
People will want more GPUs but will they be able to fund them? At what points does the venture capital and loans run out? People will not keep pouring hundreds of billions into this if the returns don't start coming.
Money will be interesting the next few years.
There is a real chance that the Japanese carry trade will close soon the BoJ seeing rates move up to 4%. This means liquidity will drain from the US markets back into Japan. On the US side there is going to be a lot of inflation between money printing, refund checks, amortization changes and a possible war footing. Who knows?
Not that locked out: https://www.cnbc.com/2025/12/31/160-million-export-controlle...
I suspect major algorithmic breakthroughs would accelerate the demand for GPUs instead of making it fall off, since the cost to apply LLMs would go down.
Some changes to the algorithms and implementations will allow cheaper commodity hardware to be used.
Doesn't even necessarily need to be CUDA compatible... there's OpenCL and Vulkan as well, and likely China will throw enough resources at the problem to bring various libraries into closer alignment to ease of use/development.
I do think China is still 3-5 years from being really competitive, but still even if they hit 40-50% of NVidia, depending on pricing and energy costs, it could still make significant inroads with legal pressure/bans, etc.
> there's OpenCL and Vulkan as well
OpenCL is chronically undermaintained & undersupported, and Vulkan only covers a small subset of what CUDA does so far. Neither has the full support of the tech industry (though both are supported by Nvidia, ironically).
It feels like nobody in the industry wants to beat Nvidia badly enough, yet. Apple and AMD are trying to supplement raster hardware with inference silicon; both of them are afraid to implement a holistic compute architecture a-la CUDA. Intel is reinventing the wheel with OneAPI, Microsoft is doing the same with ONNX, Google ships generic software and withholds their bespoke hardware, and Meta is asleep at the wheel. All of them hate each other, none of them trust Khronos anymore, and the value of a CUDA replacement has ballooned to the point that greed might be their only motivator.
I've wanted a proper, industry-spanning CUDA competitor since high school. I'm beginning to realize it probably won't happen within my lifetime.
Ask Claude, HN tells me that it can implement the things that you ask.
The modern successor to OpenCL is SYCL and there's been some limited convergence with Vulkan Compute (they're still based on distinct programming models and even SPIR-V varieties under the hood, but the distance is narrowing somewhat).
> short of major algorithmic breakthroughs I am not convinced the global demand for GPUs will drop any time soon
Or, you know, when LLMs don't pay off.
Even if LLMs didn't advance at all from this point onward, there's still loads of productive work that could be optimized / fully automated by them, at no worse output quality than the low-skilled humans we're currently throwing at that work.
inference requires a fraction of the power that training does. According to the Villalobos paper, the median date is 2028. At some point we won't be training bigger and bigger models every month. We will run out of additional material to train on, things will continue commodifying, and then the amount of training happening will significantly decrease unless new avenues open for new types of models. But our current LLMs are much more compute-intensive than any other type of generative or task-specific model
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How much of the current usage is productive work that's worth paying for vs personal usage / spam that would just drop off after usage charges come in? I imagine flooding youtube and instagram with slop videos would reduce if users had to pay fair prices to use the models.
The companies might also downgrade the quality of the models to make it more viable to provide as an ad supported service which would again reduce utilisation.
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Exactly, the current spend on LLMs is based on extremely high expectations and the vendors operating at a loss. It’s very reasonable to assume that those expectations will not be met, and spending will slow down as well.
Nvidia’s valuation is based on the current trend continuing and even increasing, which I consider unlikely in the long term.
> Nvidia’s valuation is based on the current trend continuing
People said this back when Folding@Home was dominated by Team Green years ago. Then again when GPUs sold out for the cryptocurrency boom, and now again that Nvidia is addressing the LLM demand.
Nvidia's valuation is backstopped by the fact that Russia, Ukraine, China and the United States are all tripping over themselves for the chance to deploy it operationally. If the world goes to war (which is an unfortunate likelihood) then Nvidia will be the only trillion-dollar defense empire since the DoD's Last Supper.
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> short of major algorithmic breakthroughs I am not convinced the global demand for GPUs will drop any time soon
>> Or, you know, when LLMs don't pay off.
Heh, exactly the observation that a fanatic religious believer cannot possibly foresee. "We need more churches! More priests! Until a breakthrough in praying technique will be achieved I don't foresee less demand for religious devotion!" Nobody foresaw Nietzsche and the decline in blind faith.
But then again, like an atheist back in the day, the furious zealots would burn me at the stake if they could, for saying this. Sadly no longer possible so let them downvotes pour instead!
They already are paying off. The nature of LLMs means that they will require expensive, fast hardware that's a large capex.
They aren’t yet because the big providers that paid for all of this GPU capacity aren’t profitable yet.
They continually leap frog each other and shift around customers which indicates that the current capacity is already higher than what is required for what people actually pay for.
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Where? Who’s in the black?