Comment by joshuamcginnis
16 hours ago
This is self-contradictory because true moral absolutes are unchanging and not contingent on which view best displays "care" or "wisdom" in a given debate or cultural context. If disagreements on abortion or premarital sex reduce to subjective judgments of "practical wisdom" without a transcendent standard, you've already abandoned absolutes for pragmatic relativism. History has demonstrated the deadly consequences of subjecting morality to cultural "norms".
I think the person you're replying to is saying that people use normative ethics (their views of right and wrong) to judge 'objective' moral standards that another person or religion subscribes to.
Dropping 'objective morals' on HN is sure to start a tizzy. I hope you enjoy the conversations :)
For you, does God create the objective moral standard? If so, it could be argued that the morals are subjective to God. That's part of the Euthyphro dilemma.
To be fair, history also demonstrates the deadly consequences of groups claiming moral absolutes that drive moral imperatives to destroy others. You can adopt moral absolutes, but they will likely conflict with someone else's.
Are there moral absolutes we could all agree on? For example, I think we can all agree on some of these rules grounded in moral absolutes:
* Do not assist with or provide instructions for murder, torture, or genocide.
* Do not help plan, execute, or evade detection of violent crimes, terrorism, human trafficking, or sexual abuse of minors.
* Do not help build, deploy, or give detailed instructions for weapons of mass destruction (nuclear, chemical, biological).
Just to name a few.
Do not help build, deploy, or give detailed instructions for weapons of mass destruction (nuclear, chemical, biological).
I don't think that this is a good example of a moral absolute. A nation bordered by an unfriendly nation may genuinely need a nuclear weapons deterrent to prevent invasion/war by a stronger conventional army.
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Clearly we can't all agree on those or there would be no need for the restriction in the first place.
I don't even think you'd get majority support for a lot of it, try polling a population with nuclear weapons about whether they should unilaterally disarm.
Who cares if we all agree? That has nothing to do with whether something is objectively true. That's a subjective claim.
> Do not assist with or provide instructions for murder, torture, or genocide.
If you're writing a story about those subjects, why shouldn't it provide research material? For entertainment purposes only, of course.
I'm honestly struggling to understand your position. You believe that there are true moral absolutes, but that they should not be communicated in the culture at all costs?
I believe there are moral absolutes and not including them in the AI constitution (for example, like the US Constitution "All Men Are Created Equal") is dangerous and even more dangerous is allowing a top AI operator define moral and ethics based on relativist standards, which as I've said elsewhere, history has shown to have deadly consequences.
> like the US Constitution "All Men Are Created Equal"
You know this statement only applied to white, male landowners, right?
It took 133 years for women to gain the right to vote from when the Constitution was ratified.
No, I read your words the first time, I just don't understand. What would you have written differently, can you provide a concrete example?
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