Comment by dgrunwald
1 day ago
> make sure not to sign into your Microsoft account or link it to Windows again
That's not so easy. Microsoft tries really hard to get you to use a Microsoft account. For example, logging into MS Teams will automatically link your local account with the Microsoft account, thus starting the automatic upload of all kinds of stuff unrelated to MS Teams.
In the past I also had Edge importing Firefox data (including stored passwords) without me agreeing to do so, and then uploading those into the Cloud.
Nowadays you just need to assume that all data on Windows computers is available to Microsoft; even if you temporarily find a way to keep your data out of their hands, an update will certainly change that.
Yes, they push the MS account stuff very hard. I've found Windows so actively hostile to the user that I basically only use Linux now.
I used to be a windows user, it has really devolved to the point where it's easier for me to use Linux (though I'm technical). I really feel for the people who aren't technical and are forced to endure the crap that windows pushes on users now.
> actively hostile
That’s the real problem MS has. It’s becoming a meme how bad the relationship between the user and windows is. It’s going to cause generational damage to their company just so they can put ads in the start menu.
It’s a pity for Apple that they keep making macOS worse with each major update. Modern Apple hardware running snow leopard would be a thing of beauty.
At this rate, my next laptop might end up being a framework running Linux.
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It’s funny because I started with Windows 3.1 and it was actively user hostile then. From 3.1 to XP it was awful. Then it got slightly better with 7, and went downhill from there.
Realistically, a major Linux distro is the most user-beneficial thing you can do and today it is easier than ever. If my 12 year old can figure out how to use it productively, so can anyone. Switch today and enjoy.
You just have to look at who buys Windows to understand this. It's OEM's and enterprises. Almost nobody buys an individual license. That's why they don't care. As an individual you get what your employer or hardware supplier says, like it or lump it.
It is sad that we got to here from when the worst problem was a tile start menu (I liked 8.1 and it ran good on fairly trash hardware.)
Maoboro cigarettes uaed to be for women, including red tipped filters to hide lipstick marks. Sales waned, so they actually rebranded the cigarette for men, and even succeeded in making it a definition of manliness.
Advertising stories like that, make sure M$ execs could care less about damage to their image.
Especially when profit leers its head.
(at least, I presume?!?)
They don't care. All of their money is on AI.
Linux is so much better than it used to be. You really don't need to be technical.
I have been recommending Kubuntu to Windows people. I find it's an easier bet than Linux Mint. You get the stability of Ubuntu, plus the guarantee of a Windows-like environment.
Yes, I know, Linux Mint supports Plasma, but I honestly think the "choose your desktop" part of the setup process is more confusing to a newbie than just recommending a distro with the most Windows-like UI and a straightforward installation.
Generally I recommend people use PopOS. It's well suited for laptops, as that's what System76 is focused on a they're shipping laptops with Nvidia GPUs. I personally prefer Arch based distorts like endeavor but even with wide community support it's just more likely a noob will face an error. Fwiw I've only faced one meaningful error in the last 3 years in endeavor but I've also been daily driving Linux for 15 years now
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Eh, not for laptops - I say as someone who switched to Linux from windows in past year.
I have spent a decent few days to get long battery life on Linux (fedora), with sleep hibernate + encryption. And I am still thinking that the Linux scheduler is not correctly using Intel's pcore/ecore on 13th gen correctly.
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Do we have confirmation that it’s a must to upload the key if you use an MS account with Windows? Is it proven that it's not possible to configure Windows to have an MS account linked, maybe even to use OneDrive, while not uploading the BitLocker key?
Btw - my definition of “possible” would include anything possible in the UI - but if you have to edit the registry or do shenanigans in the filesystem to disable the upload from happening, I would admit that it’s basically mandatory.
I just checked on my personal desktop, which has Windows 11 installed using a local user account and is signed into my MS account for OneDrive and my account is listed as having no recovery codes in the cloud. I don’t recall editing anything in the registry to accomplish this it was the default behavior for having a local user account. I copied my recovery codes when I built the machine and pasted them into an E2EE iPhone note which should allow me to recover my machine if disaster strikes (also everything is backed up to Backblaze using their client side encryption).
>Nowadays you just need to assume that all data on Windows computers is available to Microsoft; even if you temporarily find a way to keep your data out of their hands, an update will certainly change that.
I get why the US would not, but I really wish the rest of the world looked at this like the security and sovereignty issue that it is.
Teams inside a VM it is, then.
Or: Put all of Windows inside of a VM, within a host that uses disk encryption -- and let it run amok inside of its sandbox.
I did this myself for about 8 years, from 2016-2024. During that time my desktop system at home was running Linux with ZFS and libvirt, with Windows in a VM. That Windows VM was my usual day-to-day interface for the entire system. It was rocky at first, but things did get substantially better as time moved on. I'll do it again if I have a compelling reason to.
If you’re doing your work inside the windows machine, what protection does Linux as a host get you?
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It's not just Teams. You need to be constantly vigilant not to make any change that would let them link your MS account to Windows. And they make it more and more difficult not only to install but also use Windows without a Microsoft account. I think they'll also enforce it on everybody eventually.
You need to just stop using windows and that's it.
The only windows I am using is the one my company makes me use but I don't do anything personal on it. I have my personal computer next to it in my office running on linux.
doing things like that which is completely unrelated should be considered data theft, and microsoft should be punished so severely they wish they never had the idea to begin with
> logging into MS Teams
I mean, this is one application nobody should ever log into!
Teams in the browser, on Linux. That is reasonably harmless.
That's nice.
I, however, like getting my paycheck, and so I have no choice.
Of course. But I suppose you run Teams on a company provided/managed, or at least paid for by the company, device?
Just don’t use that machine for anything private.
Is anyone using their private devices for work? (Also there is teams for Linux and on the web, if that is not prevented by the policy of your org.)
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teams works fine in website form for me because it IS a website (that uses an extra ~1gb of ram running as a desktop app because its also a separate browser)
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That means you’ll do that on the work machine provided by your employer, not on your personal machine.