Comment by leoedin
11 hours ago
> The push toward LED seems to be primarily for emission target related reasons
Is this true? I’ve got LEDs in my house because they cost vastly less to run, and because I rarely have to replace the bulbs.
Some cheap LEDs do flicker (at 50 or 60 Hz). But that’s fairly easily solved. I don’t think I’ve noticed the flicker since some cheap bulbs I bought in 2014 or so.
"I don’t think I’ve noticed the flicker…"
Well… (Sorry, let me put my tinfoil hat on.) Yeah, well that noticed part is what is worrisome to me. I do worry that there is some effect on our brains even though we might not perceive the flicker.
As an analogy, I got into those supposedly audiophile "Class D" (or "Class T") amplifiers over a decade ago. Every day I turned on the music in my office and coded with the T-amp playing. I would have told you at the time that, indeed, it sounded amazing.
Some time later I built a tube amplifier (The Darling [2], in case anyone cares—I've since built perhaps a dozen more).
When I brought it into the office and swapped it out for the T-amp, the change was sublime but immediately noticeable. I hate to fall back on audiophile terminology but it's the best I have for the experience: I was suddenly aware of "listening fatigue" that had been a component of the T-amp. I hadn't even known it had been fatiguing until I heard the tube amp in its place for days on end.
With the loss of color fidelity and the flickering issue, I'm embarrassed to say that incandescent is starting to look good to me again.
I might, as an experiment, replace only those lights that we turn on in the evening when we are relaxing, reading.
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Class-T_amplifier
[2] https://www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/darling-1626-amp.... and https://imgur.com/gallery/oh-darling-tube-amplifier-Lq2Sx
If the LED has good DC conversion it should not flicker at all, the flow across the diode would be constant. Just buy good LEDs, incandescent light has many drawbacks.
This is a really interesting comparison, but a flawed analogy. (I’m absolutely not challenging your preference for tube amps.)
LEDs clearly do not produce anything like the spectral energy of blackbody radiation (sunlight, incandescence bulbs), and many do flicker (although that’s a byproduct of individual designs, not the technology itself). This is easy to confirm with simple sensors. So it’s completely uncontroversial to say they don’t replicate “natural” light.
Pretty much all tube amp designs produce an output that is modified from the input signal. This is what makes them sound different and to plenty of personal opinions more enjoyable to listen to music on. But they are more like the “LED” side of the lighting example - they produce an output that is different from the “natural” aka original audio material.
> Is this true? I’ve got LEDs in my house because they cost vastly less to run, and because I rarely have to replace the bulbs.
its the same thing. If it uses less electricity it both reduces the cost to you and reduces emissions from generating electricity.
I think most people would have switched over gradually anyway, but effectively banning incandescents speeded it up.
I have not found that LED bulbs last noticably longer than incandescents. I'm still replacing bulbs, and though I don't keep records it feels about the same.
LEDs are just terrible in every way except electrical consumption.
My first hue led is from around 2015 and is still working perfectly fine.
Every other low quality led I bought around that time or even later is long dead by now. I disagree
Even off-brand ones now are lasting longer than the ones 10 years ago. It used to be a problem, now I rarely change any bulbs.
Good LEDs in the right circumstances will last almost forever - unfortunately many LEDs on the shelf are trash. They often have small print about not using them in enclosed fixtures or sconces since their thermal management is atrocious and they will self-immolate if not in open air.
I've seen some overheat themselves even in open air!
LED bulbs, even though cheaper in the long term, used to habe high enough shelf prices enough that most houdeholds wouldn’t have switched without a government push. Incandescents are literally banned now for most uses, while the economies of scale have helped drive LED prices down.
It does seem an easy win for govts to easily conform.
I buy the ones that are suitable for dimmable switches (even tho I don't have dimmers) because there is discernible flicker with most other LED bulbs if you for eg wave your arm through the air or made a saccade. There is a certification (i think) for LED bulbs that are closer to sunlight in their emission spectrum
Look for high Ra or CRI value. Dont buy cheap LED lights, they last for far too long.
It costs less to run because less energy is used; I'm pretty sure incandescent bulbs aren't emitting anything by themself! "The push" is from the government, perhaps consumer demand is "the pull".
They do emit a lot of heat!
Almost all the energy consumed by appliances in your home gets ultimately converted into heat. For example, the picture on your TV is made from emitted light rays that are absorbed by various solid objects in your home and heats them up. Same for the sounds from your speakers. Your washing machine spins water and clothes around, which makes both the water+clothes and the body of the washing machine to heat up due to friction.
A counter example is a water pump, which converts electricity into gravitational potential energy of the water as it flows upwards.
which is not that bad if you want to warm your room a bit. The heat is not wasted, but added to the room. We use 250 watts to warm under the coffee tables. These are infrared-coated incandescent bulbs
>Is this true? I’ve got LEDs in my house because they cost vastly less to run, and because I rarely have to replace the bulbs.
At least in EU is true. Citing from Wikipedia: "The 2005 Ecodesign directive covered energy-using products (EuP), which use, generate, transfer or measure energy, including consumer goods such as boilers, water heaters, computers, televisions, and industrial products such as transformers. The implementing measures focus on those products which have a high potential for reducing greenhouse gas emissions at low cost, through reduced energy demand."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ecodesign_Directive