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Comment by shrubble

7 hours ago

There’s a reason why Devuan (a non systemd Debian) exists. Don’t want to get into a massive argument, but there are legitimate reasons for some to go in a different direction.

9 comments

shrubble

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greenbit  4 hours ago

And "because I want to" is a legitimate reason, if it's my system. It's not up for discussion.

smartmic  7 hours ago

And Void Linux. And Gentoo. And Alpine Linux. And Slackware. And others.

  • forty  7 hours ago

    Systemd has recently added experimental support for musl libc, which should eventually allow Alpine to upgrade though

  • eth0up  7 hours ago

    After over a decade of Debian, when I upgraded my PC, I tried every big systemd-based distro, including opensuse, which I wholly loathed. I finally decided on Void and feel at home as I did 20+ years ago when I began.

    There are serious problems with the systemd paradigm, most of which I couldn't argue for or against. But at least in Void, I can remove network-manger altogether, use cron as I always have, and generally remain free to do as I please until eventually every package there is has systemd dependencies which seems frightfully plausible at this pace.

    Void is as good as I could have wanted. If that ever goes, I guess it's either BSD or a cave somewhere.

    I'm glad to see the terse questions here. They're well warranted.

    • TacticalCoder  1 hour ago

      > Void is as good as I could have wanted. If that ever goes, I guess it's either BSD or a cave somewhere.

      If systemd-less Linux ever go, there are indeed still the BSDs. But I thought long and hard about this and already did some testing: I used to run Xen back in the early hardware-virt days and nowadays I run Proxmox (still, sadly, systemd-based).

      An hypervisor with a VM and GPU passthrough to the VM is at least something too: it's going to be a long long while before people who want to take our ability to control our machines will be able to prevent us from running a minimal hypervisor and then the "real" OS in a VM controlled by the hypervisor.

      I did GPU passthrough tests and everything works just fine: be it Linux guests (which I use) or Windows guests (which I don't use).

      My "path" to dodge the cave you're talking about is going to involved an hypervisor (atm I'm looking at the FreeBSD's bhyve hypervisor) and then a VM running systemd-less Linux.

      And seen that, today, we can run just about every old system under the sun in a VM, I take we'll all be long dead before evil people manage to prevent us from running the Linux we want, the way we want.

      You're not alone. And we're not alone.

      I simply cannot stand the insufferable arrogance of Agent Poettering. Especially not seen the kitchen sink that systemd is (systemd ain't exactly a homerun and many are realizing that fact now).